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Discussion Starter #1
I've noticed so many people complaining about Eternal Warrior, or pretty much anything that prevent Instant Death, but exactly how prevalent is it really? I can think of 1 army that has it as an army universal rule (Chaos Daemons) but what else has it that provokes such malcontent?

Seriously, if you're not playing Daemons how many slots can be filled with EW douches?
 

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Nah, all I hear is people whining either because nids no longer has it all around or complaints of all the stuff ignoring EW. I really don't see anyone complaining about it luring at every corner.
 

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Shit, I get piss wjen I think how Kharn use to shrug of a Krak Missil or PF attack back in 4th, now he goes down to a single Str 8 shot if I fail my unlikly 5+. Fuck that noise, give me back EW where it belongs. I think Chaos Lords could use it to increase their effectivness for CSM players.

EW is not a end all be all, its just plain hard to counter on certain T4 lower units. I complain more against T5+ units with no EW.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I only know of one thing that ignores it. What, besides JotWW, ignores EW?
 

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I only know of one thing that ignores it. What, besides JotWW, ignores EW.
Hey, I didn't say I complained about it. And as much as I love bitching and moaning about stuff I tend not to listen to peoples whining when it doesn't sound justified. So actually...I don't know. Well Jez's cat does but I hardly think that comes up every game. :p
 

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Space Wolves could grab a lot of Eternal Warriors with the Saga of the Bear (I think that's what it's called.)

4 HQ, 3 Elites (Lone Wolves) is what I can think of.

Black Templars' Marshall can pick up the Adamantine Mantle for EW, not sure on others.

Sammael Master of the Ravenwing also has it.

As for things that ignore EW, you have Gift of Chaos, the Ol' Zogwort power and other variants of that, as well as the special Nemesis Force Weapon for Grey Knights, as it is not technically instant-death, only 'removes all remaining wounds.' Or something to that matter.
 

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Space Wolves could grab a lot of Eternal Warriors with the Saga of the Bear (I think that's what it's called.)
I'm pretty sure only one character per army can have each saga, (excluding named characters) in which case it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I honestly think they could make eternal warrior a bit more prevalent. It would be nice for characters that have little other defense against instant kills, I agree that it would help chaos lords out a lot.
 

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I don't really 'hate' EW. I think it's a poorly thought out rule. I don't like the number of models that have the rule, IMO it should be a very very rare rule representing the toughest creatures in the galaxy. And even then I think it needs to be less absolute.

Things that should not suffer outright ID:
-Daemons - Instead after taking an ID wound they should have to make a stability test vs ID.
-MC Tyranids - Suffer 2 wounds against ID wounds.
-Truly Epic Heroes (One or two of the special characters in the game deserve this) - Not sure about this one.
 

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I think EW should be on the Leader leaders of the races aka things like Swarm Lords though they already ignore it with high T, then there would be guys like Abaddon or Vect etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
See I'm not a fan of EW on characters like Lysander- he's a tough guy but represent that by increasing his toughness not by making it so that he can take a Demolisher Shell between the eyes and all it does is scorch his eye brows!

If you're not a Daemon, or some incredibly resilient being such as a C'tan or Bio-Titan monstrosity then you don't deserve that rule- being able to shake off having a force weapon rammed through your chest doesn't make you heroic character it makes you a god...I don't want to play with gods, I'm agnostic and I don't know if they really exist.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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How about Demigods? You ok with that? If it makes you feel any better we could call them gds. Ooo or maybe we should do just as you say, Logan is now T6! Fixed now I am happy.
 

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Ahab brings up a good point. I think the point of the rule is to represent those characters who simply AREN'T T6+, but are still too damn tough (in terms of their will) to die. And the force weapon, much as I wish it would go back to the 4th edition rules, makes sense in being resisted by Eternal Warrior- the EW characters will is just too strong to be broken. What WOULD be interesting, though, would be a Psyker Character with the ability to ignore EW with his force weapon- representing an equally strong or stronger will.

EW could also represent the fact that someone's seen every trick in the book and thus knows how to avoid getting completely smushed by that thar demolisher shell.

And on a closing note, why not try a game with an EW character being at T6- Good luck with that.
 

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Unforgiven
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It's what I like to call "Hall of Fame Syndrome". The standards for meeting "Eternal Warrior" have, at least up until this point, been relatively subjective-

No matter what happens, some people will say its not restrictive enough, or that if X gets it, then surely Y should!

Why does Commissar Yarrick get in the EW club, as opposed to Kharn the Betrayer? Kharn has survived 10000 years as Khorne's Chosen... if you can find a guy who's been in more battles, I'd be impressed! Surely someone would have managed to tag him with a lascannon by now...

Fluffy reasons aside, mechanically- it appears subjective as well. There doesnt seem to be a hard and fast rule for what characterizes a model to get EW. Everyone understands why orks get FC, why Plague Marines get FNP: there is an established trend for special rules for aggressive CC specialists and resilient tough guys.

But not so with EW.

Which is why it will continually be debated.


Edit:
As a side note, I fully reject the notion that a GK's force weapon will not work on a daemon. I mean, I get it. Daemons are EW's and you want to make the force weapon property Instant death... but REALLY? Have the Grey Knights force weapon work against 'Nid warriors but NOT DAEMONS? Reeeaaallly?
 

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In all honesty the only the Eldar Phoenix Lords should have this rule...They are true Eternal Warriors, there souls live on no mater what happen to them!
 

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i here poeple complaing that Mephiston doesn't have it. To which i promtly bitch slap them and say he's broken enought all ready.

Some people have that special rule becuase they just won't die with there fluff. Lysander for example broken out of a chaos fort with nothing but his bare hands and even servied the years of tourture wiht both his body and mind intact. Now thats bad ass. Methiston being locked into a cave for 7 dyas and then going on a killing spre on some ork heads hasn't really put him though much pysically so he's not as hardy and as contuinasly been spitting in madame death's face.
 

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In all honesty the only the Eldar Phoenix Lords should have this rule...They are true Eternal Warriors, there souls live on no mater what happen to them!
But daemons shouldn't because the are way less immortal than Phoenix Lords? Riiiight....
 

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Eternal Warrior is not about how tough you are, but how Heroic you are. Thats why people are confused about why Dante etc doesn't have it. For example Eisenhorn would be an eternal warrior not because he's tough but because he never dies, he always avoids it at the last minute, something happens which prevents the full force of the blast killing him etc etc. Being an Eternal Warrior doesn't mean you can just take a Power Fist on the chin, it means that though mysterious circumstances the Power Fist never connects properly, only wounding rather than explodifying.

Aramoro
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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An EW mephy would have put his point cost so damn high you couldn't field him and it would be pointless in most games. Any character with a force weapon that hits before mephy is a damn chaos god or something! Lol
 
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