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· Registered
3,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, recently i've been playing a lot with one of my friends. he plays Space Marines, Chapter tactics "The Angles Revenant", https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resour...rge_World_Space_Marine_Chapter_Tactics_V2.pdf
but we houseruled it to affect Chaos Marines instead of Necrons.
Point is, he just cannot win a game. I played fluffy or totally stupid armies (i fielded mutilators. MUTILATORS. with footslogging berzerkers and terminator squads in landraiders...) Still he cannot win. We realized that he was lacking some basic skills of the game: deploying, target priority and "playing the mission" (aka scoring points)
So, i proposed to have a number of skirmishes where i could follow him trough the actual game and teach him something. I'm no tactical genius, but i'm still better than the average Ork Boy :grin2:
I want to organize these "tactical lessons" by having a small campaign, with increasing point values and ,at least from the beginning, pre-set lists.

So, first game will be 500 pts, on a small (4 x 4 board)

Should be a small game about micromanaging and target priority.

I was thinking about 2 non-optimized lists and strong building density for the board.

My Chaos list could be (representing a cult outburst led by some Chaos Marines)

-Chaos Lord
aura of glory
Mark of Slaanesh
twin claws

-15 cultists, flamer
-15 Cultists
-10 cultists, 8 autoguns, 1 heavy stubber

-5 Chosen
3 meltagun
Rhino, havoc launcher

While for his list i was thinking (representing a loyalist quick response unit)

heavy bolter sponson
Sergeant chronos

-5 devastators
4 heavy bolters
Armorium cherub

5 Scouts
5 snipers

5 Marines
heavy flamer
Rhino, w/ Hunter Killer missile, dozer blade

As first game this should give him an hedge over me, allowing for an easy learning lesson, about targeting the correct unit and careful deployment (due to lot of LOS blocking terrain)

Do you have any suggestions about the scenario we should play? I was thinking about "The emperors will" on "Hammer and Anvil" (plain and simple)
Do you think the lists are well matched ?(on the space marines side :x )
Thanks for reading the text wall!

· Registered
140 Posts
I think it should be alright, that's a lot of fire power on the SM side that will shred through those about everything on the CSM side if they are caught in the cross-fire out of cover. The csm have some big threats in the form of the chosen squad and lord, without those the cultists will be hard pressed to deal with the pred. If your looking to teach him target priority this seems like a good way to do it. (although if his dice are still botching up when he brought three tanks to the fight, he may want to consider new ones)

So for a starter game slightly in favor of the SM? I think this should do it.

I do wanna hear how the battle went though, should be a fun report.

· Registered
3,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks KahRyez, will definetely post the report, maybe with some pics too. :)
His dice rolling is obnoxious. it's snake eyes like he's rollind D3 instead of D6 :taunt:

· Critique for da CriticGod
3,339 Posts
Before getting too detailed about armies and points, it might be worth considering exactly what you want to teach him.

I work in education and training. First you want to write a few learning objectives and pick the forces based on that.

I don't know how capable he is, so I'd probably start with 2 units per side with no cover. Then work my way up adding cover, new weapon types, new special rules, new scenarios, etc. and building up the complexity.

He will need to be able to consider all of these different factors and variables before he can compete effectively.

· Registered
3,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@Kreuger thank you! That was a sound piece of advice.
I'll definitely do what you say. Best to start from scratch, with clear objectives.

· Critique for da CriticGod
3,339 Posts
In training we refer to the ABCD's of learning objectives.

Audience - who. E.g. your friend, a 40k beginner.
Behavior - the specific action the trainee needs to complete successfully. E.g. selecting the right target during the shooting phase
Condition - the context for the behavior. E.g. each shooting phase when selecting targets
Degree - the quantity or quality which determines if the behavior is successful. E.g. selected the most appropriate target with 80% accuracy

I'm not sure how you say all that in Italian. =)

· Registered
3,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok. this is what i was thinking.
First Lesson:
Audience -40k beginner
Behavior - selecting the right target during the shooting phase, deploying correctly
Condition - during deployment phase and of course during each shooting phase
Degree - depoly with maximum 1 abvious mistake, select at least 8/10 right targets during the game.

Second Lesson:
Audience -40k beginner
Behavior - Moving units properly during the game, in order to score points
Condition - during each movement phase; special enphasis on the last game turn
Degree - managing to keep a decent level of points during the whole game e.g. even if losing, doing so with a 10-20% diference.

Third lesson:
All of the above in the same game.

Probably going to need a couple of games in lesson 3. I was thinking about reapating it ad libitum, with same lists, until he DOES win a game. What do you think about that?

About point level / terrain,
1st lesson maybe 250 pts and scarce terrain
2nd lesson maybe 500 pts and normal terrain
3rd lesson maybe 750 pts and heavy terrain (we normally have a quite terrain-heavy board)
@Kreuger, this kind of approach was what i was aiming for, in my inexperience. i cannot rep you enough...somebody rep this guy!

p.s. I also begin to think that constant list changing is just confusing for my friend. Alternative approach could be keeping the same list with minimal variations.

· Registered
3,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I wrote a big ass post that got lost in the warp. I'm not in the mood to rewrite it.
The synopsis:
we played the first two games.
He lost, but those were incredibly thight games, and my victory was marginal.
My pal still have some serious issues in deployment and reserve usage.
Also, he rolls snake eyes like he's living in a reptile house. That is definitely not helping him...
Third game we will play until he wins. He need to focus on deplyment and use reserves better.
He improved target selection and army synergy by a great deal.
Also, we will use the same list.

Librarian (biomancy)
5 marines w/flamer in razorback
10 marines w/flamer & heavy flamer in rhino
3 bikers, 2 plasmaguns
3 bikers, 2 plasmaguns
5 terminators, asscannon
5 terminators, hammers&shields

i'm missing some upgrades for shure. i think he played with some 30 pts more. that's fine. i realized that later.

I went for a cultist heavy list (3 units of 20), with an helbrute, a khorne lord with fury axe, raptors with melta, havocs with full melta in rhino and havocs with full flamers in rhino.

So, again, third game is going to be adlibitum until he wins.
and, of course, GLORY TO CHAOS!
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