empire questions.
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I have little success with hellblasters although they are pretty good for the whole fear tactic as many dont like the possiblilty of 30 rounds being pumped into one of their units, although the killing potentialof the hellstorm puts the hellblaster 2nd in best rare slot for empire. The hellstorm is miles better currently due to the improved accuracy and the increased amount of hits off blasts.
Outriders are a little debatable. The amount of shots they turn out is so good but these days its probably better to invest in some foot soldiers like halberdiers (who turned out as the best state troop in 8th
)
Outriders are a little debatable. The amount of shots they turn out is so good but these days its probably better to invest in some foot soldiers like halberdiers (who turned out as the best state troop in 8th
)Hell blasters were awesome when they were first added to the Empire list but as the army has changed it's been reduced to very little more than a sideshow.
It still has the fearfactor from 2 or 3 editions ago and to be fair with the change to character slots meaning you can take an Engineer without lowering your overall hero capabilities it is slightly better than it was last edition but not by much.
Rolling to hit with a weapon as unreliable as the volleygun especially on bs 3 is just too much to justify the cost over what the helstorm is capable of.
I still take 1 although I put mine between my 2 main infantry blocks so if my opponent wants to fight he has to get in range wher before on the flanks thy could just keep to long range or use skirmishers so the chance of a misfire was higher than the chance of actually hitting anything.
I really like outriders when facing smaller elite armies or ogres, They are not as effective as pistolieers at misdirection and harassment but as a guard unit provided you can sheild them they usually do well.
Against hordes they're fairly pointless as a fully ranked unit will always outperform them. and any concentrated firepower will decimate them in fairly short order.
I like to use them as a deterent with an additional longrifle for wizard sniping (I'm yet to play a game under the new rules where my opponents wizards have seen in my turn 3.
It still has the fearfactor from 2 or 3 editions ago and to be fair with the change to character slots meaning you can take an Engineer without lowering your overall hero capabilities it is slightly better than it was last edition but not by much.
Rolling to hit with a weapon as unreliable as the volleygun especially on bs 3 is just too much to justify the cost over what the helstorm is capable of.
I still take 1 although I put mine between my 2 main infantry blocks so if my opponent wants to fight he has to get in range wher before on the flanks thy could just keep to long range or use skirmishers so the chance of a misfire was higher than the chance of actually hitting anything.
I really like outriders when facing smaller elite armies or ogres, They are not as effective as pistolieers at misdirection and harassment but as a guard unit provided you can sheild them they usually do well.
Against hordes they're fairly pointless as a fully ranked unit will always outperform them. and any concentrated firepower will decimate them in fairly short order.
I like to use them as a deterent with an additional longrifle for wizard sniping (I'm yet to play a game under the new rules where my opponents wizards have seen in my turn 3.
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It recieved an upgrade in the rules - as Nielbatte says, the ability to take an Engineer with the weapon upped its reliability, but it's still not outstanding - other units became a lot more powerful - i.e the Helstorm and the Mortar especially. It's Auto-hit was what made it so damn effective before, but with template partials always hitting and placing guess weapons at will, they became a bit superfluous to requirements - as 2-12 hits is much less devastating than a potential 9-12.
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736 Posts
As a long term Empire General across several editions of Fantasy this is what I have found with the Hellblaster.
1). It is for the Empire a cheap and effective fear unit. When it fires off spectacularly it decimates the enemy line especially if you get it right. This alone for anyone who has faced one almost gives it double its value in points. It can be a great flank denial weapon, you stick it out on the flank and you will find unless your opponent has something to deal with warmachine specific targets they will be rather sheepish when it comes to moving within range of the thing.
2). As I have observed in 8th edition, people are still getting used to using skirmish troops. Reading any of the online forums that have a greater warhammer presence than here on heresy will soon lead you to conclude that skirmish troops are now either much classed as "useless" or "no longer useful". This is IMO a false premise. Players just have not become smart enough with them or have really read the rules well enough and understand how they really work. How does this impact your hellblaster? Simple... skirmish troops and scouts and hidden and anything that can be used to get close is a potential danger to the gun itself and the crew. Things like Dark Elf Harpies, shades, empire marksmen, dark riders without shields, light cavalry and night runners etc are all capable of taking out the Empire's warmachines when they are played correctly with little fuss. You need to consider that when placing the gun, and perhaps what you place around it.
As for Outriders.
I use them and Pistoliers often. I find them quite good as warmachine hunters and as worry troops. I play a classic Empire gunline anchored with a 40 odd strong unit of halberdiers in my centre. I want the enemy to come to me for classic anvil tactics. The Outriders and Pistoliers are great as they can go off and either take out war machines as the foe advances, or move about and bother the enemy. Be wary however that they are best suited to hit and fade tactics rather than sticking around, as they will be slaughtered.
Hope this helps you out.
Lexi.
1). It is for the Empire a cheap and effective fear unit. When it fires off spectacularly it decimates the enemy line especially if you get it right. This alone for anyone who has faced one almost gives it double its value in points. It can be a great flank denial weapon, you stick it out on the flank and you will find unless your opponent has something to deal with warmachine specific targets they will be rather sheepish when it comes to moving within range of the thing.
2). As I have observed in 8th edition, people are still getting used to using skirmish troops. Reading any of the online forums that have a greater warhammer presence than here on heresy will soon lead you to conclude that skirmish troops are now either much classed as "useless" or "no longer useful". This is IMO a false premise. Players just have not become smart enough with them or have really read the rules well enough and understand how they really work. How does this impact your hellblaster? Simple... skirmish troops and scouts and hidden and anything that can be used to get close is a potential danger to the gun itself and the crew. Things like Dark Elf Harpies, shades, empire marksmen, dark riders without shields, light cavalry and night runners etc are all capable of taking out the Empire's warmachines when they are played correctly with little fuss. You need to consider that when placing the gun, and perhaps what you place around it.
As for Outriders.
I use them and Pistoliers often. I find them quite good as warmachine hunters and as worry troops. I play a classic Empire gunline anchored with a 40 odd strong unit of halberdiers in my centre. I want the enemy to come to me for classic anvil tactics. The Outriders and Pistoliers are great as they can go off and either take out war machines as the foe advances, or move about and bother the enemy. Be wary however that they are best suited to hit and fade tactics rather than sticking around, as they will be slaughtered.
Hope this helps you out.
Lexi.
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8,249 Posts
Hell yeah thats true- was playing against a couple of them in a legendary battle... my comic ogre deathstar unit walked right up in front of them then had 30 shots (no misfire) from the first one kill an entire rank of ogres (15+ wounds)... then had the second roll 10 shots (yes, that was 4*10 on the trot) then misfire... ... it missed with all 10 shots and then blew up
The experience has left me with 2 thoughts on hellblasters... they are potentially really really evil little devils and they are also massively funny
I have played with the Hellblasters across several editions (and have yet to field a Hellstorm) and although they are weaker than they were a couple of editions ago I think people overestimate by how much. Yes they now have to roll for hits but before it was just overpowered by quite a margin and it is simply more balanced now and I believe has a better Str and AS modifier than before (taken a gaming break for a while so forgive me if thats a mistake).
Balanced, however, is a very odd word to describe the Hellblaster as it is one of the most up and down units in the game. It is extremely unlikely your Hellblaster will be on the board after 4 turns let alone six - face it, its going to blow up but that doesn't matter. The point is to take out twice or three times its value in units. I think the mistake many players make is firing it whenever an elite unit comes into range. Without an engineer this makes hitting with many shots pretty unlikely (and not great even with one) compared to the chance of the HB exploding (fairly high).
The key is to wait until a unit is within 12" unless forced to fire earlier. With an engineer (recommended) the chance of hits are quite significant at this point. I no longer use them to decimate whole units which was their strength a few editions ago but instead focus them on elite units and characters that come within the deadly 12". I have had excellent success with several Hellblasters in an army.
The caveat to all this is that I mostly play a friend who uses WoC so destroying any large elite units or lords justifies the point cost of taking 3 Hellblasters even if all three are destroyed/explode having no more effect than taking out a lord.
As many people have said the fear factor keeps people away from them where they can and I still think this fear is justified but wait until you can see the whites of their eyes and you have a valuable weapon.
Balanced, however, is a very odd word to describe the Hellblaster as it is one of the most up and down units in the game. It is extremely unlikely your Hellblaster will be on the board after 4 turns let alone six - face it, its going to blow up but that doesn't matter. The point is to take out twice or three times its value in units. I think the mistake many players make is firing it whenever an elite unit comes into range. Without an engineer this makes hitting with many shots pretty unlikely (and not great even with one) compared to the chance of the HB exploding (fairly high).
The key is to wait until a unit is within 12" unless forced to fire earlier. With an engineer (recommended) the chance of hits are quite significant at this point. I no longer use them to decimate whole units which was their strength a few editions ago but instead focus them on elite units and characters that come within the deadly 12". I have had excellent success with several Hellblasters in an army.
The caveat to all this is that I mostly play a friend who uses WoC so destroying any large elite units or lords justifies the point cost of taking 3 Hellblasters even if all three are destroyed/explode having no more effect than taking out a lord.
As many people have said the fear factor keeps people away from them where they can and I still think this fear is justified but wait until you can see the whites of their eyes and you have a valuable weapon.
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33 Posts
I'm of the crowd that thinks the Helblaster still has it's uses and is effective at those. Worried about the BS3? The Lore of Metal has an App for that. As mentioned the role an Engineer plays now is nice.
Overall it's "just as good" (meaning I wouldn't totally dismiss it as some others will) as the rest of the Empire's warmachines. The look on your opponents face when you get that 10,10,10 hits roll is priceless too.
As for Outriders, they can provide a very mobile fire base. True they can't move and shoot in one turn they can be near anywhere on the board and ready to unload 15 shots (using the minimum number in a unit) out to 24'. Certainly a plan in advance unit and not a reactionary unit (Pistoliers are more the reactionary unit).
I use both of the above units and at current am happy with them.
Overall it's "just as good" (meaning I wouldn't totally dismiss it as some others will) as the rest of the Empire's warmachines. The look on your opponents face when you get that 10,10,10 hits roll is priceless too.
As for Outriders, they can provide a very mobile fire base. True they can't move and shoot in one turn they can be near anywhere on the board and ready to unload 15 shots (using the minimum number in a unit) out to 24'. Certainly a plan in advance unit and not a reactionary unit (Pistoliers are more the reactionary unit).
I use both of the above units and at current am happy with them.
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