[LordofFenris]

Hello

I have a small question, a bit of confusion if you will. This is a spoiler alert to all who haven't read A Thousand Sons and plan to:

During the Council of Nikea, the Emperor levied an edict which instructed the dismantling of all Astartes Libraius' and said their instructors and followers were to be put back into the battle companies and no one in the Astartes was to use psychic powers again. 10k years later, all the loyal Chapters maintain Librarians.....did something happen between the Council and now? Did the Emperor rescind his edict? Or is everyone just kind of ignoring that command for the better of mankind?

 

[High_Seraph]

i belive it was roboute who re-instatuted them in his codex astartes. maybe baron or gen. ahab will confirm or deny my post.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

This is an opinionated response, but I think that after all that time they all sort of think that they are necisarry. It is sort of like astropaths. they use psychic powers even during the period the Emperor made the edict. Even though they use forbidden powers, they are still ov great use (and im sure the Emperor understood there need)

Another good example would be the Mechanicum. The Imperium ov Man dosen't allow any gods or idols yet they work together with the Mech. ov Mars. They may not be following the rules, but they are ov great importance.

Hope this helps and I personally think that Thousand sons is the Best (or at least my fav) HH book. ALL IS DUST! (Go Tzeentch!)

 

[gen.ahab]

I know it was amended post-heresy, probably by big blue, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Baron Spikey]

It's one of those things laid at the feet of Guilliman in an attempt to make him seem even worse than his detractors have already painted him, but in actuality we don't know who rescinded the Emperor's Decree- could it have been the newly emergent Inquisition?

 

[hippypancake]

Another good example would be the Mechanicum. The Imperium ov Man dosen't allow any gods or idols yet they work together with the Mech. ov Mars. They may not be following the rules, but they are ov great importance.

idk if this is true but I think I read that the Mechanicum's Omassiah is their version of the Emperor, not a seperate deity although if I'm wrong I'm sure Baron will correct me

10k years later, all the loyal Chapters maintain Librarians.....

Not all chapters I'm sure there are some that don't use them there is the obvious Black Templars who hate psykers to the point that they don't have any in their army

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Some even in Chaos don't either. (The Death Guard if I'm not mistaken)

 

[Weirdboyz]

Death Guard have Sorcerers. The only Legion/patron that doesn't have psykers is the World Eaters or anyone else dedicated to Khorne, as Khorne hates psykers.

 

[LordofFenris]

Death Guard have Sorcerers. The only Legion/patron that doesn't have psykers is the World Eaters or anyone else dedicated to Khorne, as Khorne hates psykers.

Then they are not true Death Guard. Mortarion was quite clear about his feeling for librarians. If the current "Death Guard" warbands have sorcerers, they were not part of the original heresy era Legion.

You are correct Androxine Vortex, there are a few Chaos Legions that don't use sorcerers or psykers....Anyone following Khorne for one. From what I read or understand, most sorcerers tend to be from the Thousand Sons or from Legions where they split due to their original legion following a different God.

I agree with Baron. To rescind the Emperor's decree seems.....presumptuous. It also doesn't fit in with Guilliman's loyalty factor. I always assumed it was the Lords of Terra or the Inquisition, saying they were "acting on word from the Emperor" through his tarot or some such nonsense. IMO, it seems they have alot of power in that respect. I wonder if the Emperor was to be restored somehow, what would he think of the empire built and ruled in his name.

 

[hippypancake]

something along the lines of

"WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO MY EMPIRE! there are sorcerers here, AND GOD DAMMIT STOP WORSHIPPING ME!" then he would die of shock that his imperium was full of pussies that only care about money and their own well-being than anything else

 

[Baron Spikey]

Then they are not true Death Guard. Mortarion was quite clear about his feeling for librarians. If the current "Death Guard" warbands have sorcerers, they were not part of the original heresy era Legion.

Pre-Heresy you're totally correct, but then you have to remember that Typhus is a psyker, and was before the Heresy occurred (though of course he hid it from his witch-hating Primarch)- all bets are off post-heresy, those marines with latent powers that were supressed by the order of Mortarion are now free to unleash their abilities.

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

It is sort of like astropaths. they use psychic powers even during the period the Emperor made the edict. Even though they use forbidden powers, they are still ov great use (and im sure the Emperor understood there need)

Even following the Council of Nikaea, Astropaths were still legal. Without them there was no Warp Travel and the Great Crusade would have gronud to a halt and the Imperium collapsed. The Astartes Librarians however were deemed more of a liability than an asset and were certainly not a necessity for the Imperium.

Another good example would be the Mechanicum. The Imperium ov Man dosen't allow any gods or idols yet they work together with the Mech. ov Mars. They may not be following the rules, but they are ov great importance.

Again the same thing applies, the Mechanicum of Mars is technically a seperate entity to the Imperium, allied to it but not part of it. The Emperor realised the Mechanicum's necessity to the Great Crusade (thousands of years prior to its founding) and thus couldn't afford to attempt to force his atheistic views on the Priests of Mars.

idk if this is true but I think I read that the Mechanicum's Omassiah is their version of the Emperor, not a seperate deity although if I'm wrong I'm sure Baron will correct me

Not exactly. The Emperor indirectly established the Mechanicum of Mars (via the Dragon of Mars) so that they would recognise him as their Omnissiah (incarnation of the Machine God) and thus ally with him and supply his Great Crusade. After the Heresy and the Emperor's ascension, many Priests of Mars discredited this viewpoint and they couldn't justify how the physical incarnation of a God could die.

So essentially the AdMech worship the Machine God and its incarnation the Omnissiah. During the Unification Period many Priests of Mars recognised the Emperor as the Omnissiah and thus worshipped him as such. But others, notably Fabricator General Kelbor-Hal never realised the Emperor as such and saw that he really blackmailed them into an alliance for his benefit and at the expense of theirs.

Then they are not true Death Guard. Mortarion was quite clear about his feeling for librarians. If the current "Death Guard" warbands have sorcerers, they were not part of the original heresy era Legion.

Nurgle is more their Lord and Master now rather than Mortarion, and Nurgle is fine with employing the services of psykers and sorcerers. Mortarion doesn't seem to be very active in the activities of the current-era Death Guard, and whose to say that since his elevation to Daemonhood he even cares?

As you say, the Pre-Heresy Death Guard despised psykers by decree of their Primarch, but Post-Heresy the Death Guard do employ psykers and I can't see Mortarion having much of an issue with it anymore.

 

[NiceGuyEddy]

In the new HH novel we see evidence that the Nikea council was broken not long after it was founded. The Void baron paid something like a couple of worlds in tithes to the powers that be to allow him to "legally" retain the services of one psyker. It stands to reason that if he could afford it then other's could too. In time prices of luxury goods like televisions, laptops, ipods have dropped as the market adapts to them so it stands to reason that after a while the "price" of owning a psyker dropped too, until a point was reached that the embargo/tarriff on psykers became almost meaningless/pointless unless the law is amended.

Also two things that stand out to me about the council of nikea that might have made it hard to enforce especially the way things turned out. Firstly going by A Thousand Sons every figure of authority identified as being present aka Magnus, Fulgrim, Mortarion, the Emperor, Sanguinious and Malcador ended up traitor or dead which MAY have made it a bit hard to stick too.

Also Magnus notes that 12 chief librarians stand up seemingly unanimously declaring their belief that the imperium needs psykers, I don't think they would have done it without their Primarchs backing. Again Magnus notes the Night Lords, White Scars, Ultramarines, Salamanders and Dark Angels amoungst them meaning that after the heresy of the 8 loyal legions at least 5 probably supported the use of psykers i.e. Blood Angels (Fulgrim stood with Magnus on the issue), DA (one of the 12 Chief Librarians), Ultramarines (One of the 12....), White Scars (one of the 12...) and Salamanders (one of the 12). The Imperial fists and Iron Hands are an unknown in regards to where they stood so only the Space Wolves were left to openly oppose it but when the new warmaster (Guilliman) is on the side of psykers then the psykers are probably gonna win out.

EDIT: 8 loyal legions??? Forgot the Raven Guard. My bad. Still five out of nine for the use of psykers isn't bad.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

I don't think that Mortarion was sided with chaos yet but he did play an important role as he accused Magnus of sorcery. he even said that he dosen't have any psychics in his legion (only the astropaths and such)

 

[shaantitus]

Then they are not true Death Guard. Mortarion was quite clear about his feeling for librarians. If the current "Death Guard" warbands have sorcerers, they were not part of the original heresy era Legion.

QUOTE]

Typhus?