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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi guys, i hope you are all well and thriving.
Because I definitely am, after grabbing the new Traitor Legions supplement.
So much to think about, so much list thinkering. So much fun, and most important thing, with no cheese! (Even death guard is no cheese, guys, just strong.)
So i'd like to ramble a bit about my beloved Emperor Children.
With this new book we can field a true slaaneshi force.
With just a meager investment for the nice Mark of Slaanesh for every unit, we get free Veteran of the Long War (cool), and VoTLW units gets Fearless(extra super cool), FnP 6+ (or 4+ with icon) and an ability that gives models a chance to strike even if they die before their initiative step( fluffy but nothing amazing)
Just with that (and the new relics and command traits) we could build a nice CAD army. But why would you?
If you take the EC "Decurion" you can get an army wide random +1 to a stat (WS, BS, Str, Thgn, Init, Att) due to COCAINE -combat drugs. The only crap results is Initiative. The rest is going to be handy.
So, you really want to take a "decurion".

I was thinkering with the following list building.

the special EC formation, "Kakophoni" (lord/lucius + 3-6 noise marines squads) with some nasty special bonuses to noise weapons that can and will be the core choice for our "Decurion". the lord should take the personal drug dispenser for an extra D3 rolls on COCAINE effects, cumulative with the decurion bonus.
the noise marines will benefit from any of the result on the COCAINE roll since you will shoot with them, but in the end you could be forced to engage melee. This way you have a lord under steroids (DopeLord), possibly on a bike (later the reason, besides the obvious +1 T) and a nasty bunch of blastmasters units that will not run or die easily, and will punch you in the face if you get too near. Also, i strongly recommend MSU for this.

Then we have to take an auxiliary formation.
Much stuff comes to mind: raptor talons, terminator forces etc etc...but, truly, we want to maximize the COCAINE effect. So, more bodies is a better investment. And respawning bodies is better still.
This leads us to the Losta and the damned formation. An Apostle (doped) will be hard and killy enough for his points. then we start fielding 6-9 units of 10 cultists with flamers. it's 60-90 bodies that respawn on a 4+ and will have +1 I due to mandatory mark and +1 random stat due to drugs. it's huge. you will just hope not to roll +1 I (altough 60 Init 5 cultists are going to be hilarious against marines). This will give you a reliable and killy bunch of people that will not evaporate easily from the field...
Then...spawns. 2 unit of 5 Slaanesh Spawns to escort our DopeLord. Spawns will have I4 and can get only better with the drug roll. Only +1 BS will screw them (even cultists have pistols to use that silly bonus, should you happen to roll it). Spawns have 3 wounds, base T is 5 and after a good snort on COCAINE they will be fast and hard hitting.
In the end, we really want to be able to use even the +1 BS drug roll, if it comes out. So we take the last Auxiliary force: Terminator Extermination Force, whic in itself is not bad at all. You get a free 40 pts upgrade on the lord,wich is nice, and some hatred and extra dakka on a specified targed. if you pair this with increased stats...it can be nasty.
The formation could be a Terminator Lord with Shriek Wave 12” S8 AP2, Assault D6, Mental Trauma (before shooting, Target takes Ld test and, if failed, this attack re-rolls to Wound rolls) and 3 units of 3 terminators with mixed combimelta (not plasma, we need antitank here) and powerfists.
The resulting army will be around 1850 pts with 2 kitted out lords, a support apostle of chaos, 3 terminator units for assasination mission,10 spawns to shuffle between 2 and 5 units, 4 squads of noise marines with buffed blastmasters and 60 respawning cultists with 6 flamers.
All (beside cultists and spawns) will have fearless, 6+ Fnp and retaliation strike ability. Plus, all even the spawns and cultists will have a +1 to a random stat.
Top this to each formation special rule and you truly have a COCAINE fueled army, with no vehicles (to fuck with the opponent heavy weapons) and with many bodies to annoy the opponent and score points.

Later i'll thinker about this "Decurion", but using the Raptor Talon instead than cultists and terminators.
What do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
So, let's keep spamming COCAINE based lists and ideas.
the main goal here is to use the decurion to its maximum effect.
if we want a more mobile force we could forego cultists and go for fast melee units.
i am thinking about a 1500 pts list here.
The Kakophoni would still be our core choice, but this time our lord should be kept at bare minimum equipment (my idea was sigils, meltabombs and a 15 pts upgrade-be it melee or shooty), then the minimum 3 noise squads, with Blastmasters, for long range anti infantry.
then we add meatshields: 5 slaaneshi spawns. they will be doped and 4 times out of 6 will get a nice bonus to the statline (WS 4 spawns? yes please)
Spawns will be fast and add some threat, plus they will help the charge of our next choice, the Raptor talon.
A simple lord with combimelta and claw shoul lead the 3 units of 5 raptors, each with 2 meltaguns and meltabombs. (if you have 1850 pts to work with i strongly suggest pumping one unit to 10 models, taking an icon of excess and swapping a meltabomb with a powerfist champion)
This will give us a nice anti infantry base, supported by a fast unit of spawns and antitank & assault unit in the form of the Raptors.
Then, with remaining points, we could still add raptors units to maximise MSU and antitank OR we could field a Daemon Prince of Dope with wings, armour, endless grin and the Blissgiver.
The blissgiver/endless grin on a prince is one of the nastiest thing you can do to remove enemy characters and multiwound models. Thanks to the prince, the weapon is AP2; the Prince has an incredibly high initiative and numbers of attacks, even more so thanks to the daemon weapon rule...combine that with -1 LD from endless grin and the weapon effect... (Ld test/per wound or be removed) and BAM. You die.
Seriously, for 260 pts this daemonprince is going to crush even 3++ models. Also, since you are removed as a casualty even Eternal Warriors will crap their pants. We are talking about a 6-12 attacks range here. Nice nice nice. if you manage to get the Prince where it needs to be, you have an almost guaranteed dead target. it's basically a doped (see the silverlining?) murdersword. for the same price. oh boy.

What do you think of this other rambling??
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Onward with my solitary musings...
After better consideration, i'd say that the chaos Warband formation with the universal ObSec is well worth considering.
Even better, an Emperor Children VotLW will have Fearless and 6+ FnP wich is a solid staying power.
With the Warband we can have a Dopelord with fisticlaw on a steed, plus 15-20 Slaaneshi Marines with icon, 2 meltaguns and powerfist to outflank. Then minimum remaining marines and termicide unit, up to havocs with autocannons...obsec havocs, yay! and bikers, that with icon will become a nasty unit: 6 bikers with dual melta and a powerfist + icon are well under 250 pts and can be truly aggressive and hardy.
On the 1850 pts area we can add some Spawns to gain the COCAINE effects and support the bikers.

That is a funny list, imo.

Another great "combo" EC can pull out is to maximise the power of the Heldrake formation.
You take a Flying Daemon Prince with the Sword of Character Removal, add 3 Heldrakes from the formation (hello -2 Ld to enemy units) and add a kakophoni formation: Lord with the pinning bolter relic, 3 units of noise marines with blastmaster, 1 beefed up unit on a rhino with doom siren and 2 blasters.
This is around 1500 pts, so pretty sweet. A lot of pinning waepons means that the Heldrakes will have lots of opportunities to use their D6 Vector Strikes. The prince will then wreck any multiwound model that encounters him. Only weakness is no antitank at all. At 1850, some 9 spawns can mitigate this fact with lots of bodies and melee threat. Of course AV 13-14 will just reign over you!
 

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You have a lot of cool ideas, neferhet!

I'm currently working on a 2000 point army consisting of 6 units of 5 NM with a Blastmaster, Icon and Sonic Blasters, and a Raptor Talon. I had remodeled all my Sonic Blaster dudes into Bolter guys, because I found that I very rarely got to use the Sonic Blasters. But now with split fire, I had to re-remodel those Bolter boys into Sonic Blaster boys again :)

I'm really excited to try out this stuff!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks DkMibuch!
the blasters are not my favourite choice, but with str5 and shred...they can actually be good. Those Noise Marines, imo, really want to ride rhinos to quickly redeploy and add some protection. I also found that an unit entirely comprised by blaster models is underwelwing: you will end up in melee and blasters arenot going to help you. Also, mixing blastmaster and blasters...is not worth it, to me. blastmaster want to stay put, 48" away, blasters want to get midrange and pewpew before (being) assault(ed). Since you are going to get the DRUGS bonus, you might want to split your forces to get the best of every DRUG roll... 1/2 shooters and 1/2 melee: 3 units of 5 noise marines, doom siren & meltabombs, 2 extra ccw, 2 sonic blasters, rhino w/dirge casters abd 3 units of 5 noise marines with blastmaster.
Icon of excess to your taste, maybe better to beef up the melee units and add it to those?
Also, doom siren should be a sonic weapon so...+1 str and shred for that too....tasty.

Anyway, the raptor talon + noise marines looks like a promising combo, to me. A raptor lord with shriekwave is going to ruin the day of lots of units...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How do you give blissgliver and the endless grin as it's limited to one artifact per model ?
yes i noticed that too. I cannot.
Only as an house rule you could allow this.
I was whishlisting :laugh::laugh:
 

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yes i noticed that too. I cannot.
Only as an house rule you could allow this.
I was whishlisting :laugh::laugh:
Well u can still give Endless Grin on a Chaos Lord in a Raptor talon formation with a flying Daemon Prince Blissgiver charging on the same unit, but that make a lots of points for this combo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
We could say that IF you are going to take a Warband+raptor talon you could invest some points in a daemon prince. a nice army, not so competitive...
 

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I was thinking something like
Warband
Lord (Bike, Fisticlaws, Sigil, Intoxicating Elixir)
5 CSM
5 CSM (Rhino w/ Dozer Blade)
3 Termis (2 Combi Plasmas/Meltas)
6 Bikes (2 Meltas, Icon of Excess)
5 Havocs (4 Autocannons)
5 Havocs (4 Autocannons)

Raptor Talon
Lord (Sigil, Blissgiver, Melta Bombs)
5 Raptors (2 Meltas)
5 Raptors (2 Meltas)
5 Raptors (2 Meltas)

All of course with MoS. That adds up to 1499.
What do you think, nef?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That is the way to go at 1500 imo.
i'd honestly remove the lonely rhino due to it being the sole vehicle in the army...it will just become "free first blood".
those 40 pts could become 2 plasmaguns for the marines, to make them stroll as low priority targets and take potshots (that still should hurt at St7, ap 2). spare points should be enough for 3rd combiweapon on the termins to maximise their "impact" (in our dreams). From my latest games i have learned that a list like this will struggle against hordes: a raptor unit should try to counter that occurence with dual flamer, imo. at this point we should have 14 pts left to add a power weapon (maul?) on the raptor champion where the flamers are.
But those above are just minor tweaks , the list is fine. Let me know how the game goes! i will do a similar list for my next game, i'm curious :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
SO...i've played a couple games with such lists. What i have to say is:

FnP 6+ is cool, but big units just scream for the IoExcess. Even basic marines become a threat. a 10 man unit with kitted champion, dual special weapon, IoE and rhino is over 250 pts but will last until the end of the game. A duo of such units can blunt all but the most specialized and cheesy assault units.
The mobility is key, as always. We play in a hight terrain density table and bikers are just outshined by raptors. Raptors with IoE are nasty. they can hide behind LoS blocking elements and be in your face the next turn, while bikers need to take empty lanes to avoid dangerous terrain tests. Altough one use only i've used shriekwave in a raptor talon to great effect. if you roll 3+ hits that relic can be devastating , expecially because you can later charge in with the raptors+lord unit.
Sadly, noise marines are just worse than common marines, thanks to fearless being given with the Mark of Slaanesh. Where noisy can bring specialized weaponry, marines bring modìre bodies and weapons enough to fulfill a generalist role that nise marines cannot have. As heavy support with blastmasters they cost too much; as midsupport with blasters, they do not hit hard enough (bolters have rougly the same effect) as cc unit with doomsiren they lack real punch and numbers (unless you spent a gazillion points)
so, i have to say that Noise Marines are useful only in their special formation, instead of a warband. they lack ObSec, but gain some punch with their weapons and have split fire that can help in deal with various enemies.
 

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How many models do you feel you need to put in a Raptor squad to justify buying the IoE?

I've never got around to actually playing a game with the EC. How do you feel the drugs are working out for you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
How many models do you feel you need to put in a Raptor squad to justify buying the IoE?

I've never got around to actually playing a game with the EC. How do you feel the drugs are working out for you?
I think 8-10 raptors are the only way to justify an icon. Otherwise you might aswell buy 2 raptors more. Icons have maximum effect with maximum numbers of bodies. COmpare units costs:
5 Slaaneshi raptors with icon & 2 flamers 145
10 slaaneshi raptors with icon &2 flamers 240
Consider the impact in melee or in basic shooting harassing: for 145 pts you have 5 bodies that cannot punch trough any other similarly costed unit and cannot withstand serious retaliation without immediately dropping in sub-optimal condition. For less than double those points you have a serious melee threat that can substain some punishment and still hit hard. Also, the more FnP roll you will make, the more the icon will repay itself. With 2 models saved, you have already repaid it. But with 5 man units, 2 rolls are what you can at best expect to do. With ten bodies you might as well double or triple this expectation (more bodies, more armour saves, more fnp rolls, more turn the unit is alive, hence more rolls). So, imo, 10 man units its the best investment for an icon.

About drugs...i am known for my poor rolls. Twice i used it and twice i got shit bonuses like BS and Initiative. :angry: So, i think they are a great artifact, over a 10 games span or if you are just outright lucky. About the drugs bonus from the "rapture batallion" i think it's great because it's army wide and there is no way you have a so specialized army you cannot use watever result you rolled.
 
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