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Discussion Starter #1
So alot people really like to think he beat the Void Dragon, sees every possible futur, and easily couldve beaten Horus if he wanted to.

So If during the Heresy by chance the Emp did not face Horus, how would the Emp and a handful of his Cutodes fare against four sons who represent each Chaos God. Angron with Gore Child and Father, Mortarion with his Manreaper and 2 of his Deathshroud, Fulgrim already possessed and weilding the Anathame and Phoenix Gurd, and Magnus the Red.

Could the Beg E pull out a easier win or fall to the Chaos Gods pawns?
 

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It would be a hard battle and in the end the Emperor would be dead and the Primarchs would be wounded in one way or another.
if it was the four normally, like before getting fifteen billion arms then Empy would've raped their asses with super mad phsykic head shot on Magnus and super mad awesome close combat skills on the other three.
 

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If they were still normal primarchs I think the Emperor would be able to beat all four of them though not without taking some damage. The custodes though probably won't be more than a distraction unless they fight the primarchs' lackeys. Now if were talking deamon primarchs then the Emperor gets his ass owned after maybe banishing one or two of them. Well, that's my opinion in anyway.
 

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Considering the emperor, when he finally decided to fight back against horus who was being empowered by the complete power of all four chaos gods, competely and entirely erased horus's soul and very existence from all reality across the multiverse, with but a single thought produced psycker assault (which by the way was done when he had already allowed himself to be beaten to a terminal inch of his life) goes to show that he likely would have instantly anihilated these four primarchs if he was blood lusted to erase them, daemons or not.
 

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Well, apparently, he`s holding the warp back at the moment by himself. And he`s a vegetable on life support.

So, in your hypothetical scenario, I would say he wins regardless of primarch being daemonic or not. One quick blast to annihilate Mortarion and Fulgrim, a quick psychic duel with Magnus (which he wins easily) and then it`s him against Angron.

:victory:
 

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im not some emperor botherer but i personally think he is quite all powerful but certain times he shows compassion when it probably isnt needed or warranted.
i think he didnt have any qualms about ending a primarch but this one was HORUS, his favoured son who was being used by chaos undivided to mess with his plans. we dont fully know if he was fighting and talking with horus or if it was the chaos gods possessing horus as their one and only anchor to the material realm.
id like to think that horus was possessed by the essence of each god to a point where it was them working together with all their power to finally best the emperor and it was the emperor not wanting to kill his favourite son that caused him to get so badly wooped. maybe it got to the point where he knew he was about to lose for real that he decided he couldnt save horus so ended him thus severing the link chaos had and ending it how it did.

so back to the point, he sent a assassin after night haunter, sent russ after magnus and we're not sure exactly what happened with the unknowns but its cant be ruled out a emperor sanctioned killing of those either. so on the face of it, it seems like He's not to bothered about killing a primarch so im sure if 4 came to kill him he would get his hands dirty. dont forget He has it in him so taking on 4 primarchs in one thought doesnt seem above the emp's powers to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I really find it funny that everyone "likes" to think the Emperor is all knowing and powerful, and "like" to think that all the power of the 4 Chaos Gods was in Horus and the Emp easily beat them. I belive the Fluff shows they blessed Horus with Gifts, like Abbaddon, and Abbaddon is not wrecking entire planets on his own, neither did Horus. However a Chaos God has shown to suck in worlds into the warp, thats just 1 Chaos God. I dont understand how people think the Emp faought and bested all 4 Chaos Gods.

Also for a guy whos all seeing why did he not squash Horus uprising? Why not stop Magnus from interupting his work on the Webway? Why let the Primarchs get flung to the edges of the Galaxy by Chaos? Cause he wanted to? Thats like saying I got hit by a car and broke my legs cause I planned on it. Has nothing to do with me admitting not looking both directions. I guess after all this nonsense the Emperor plan on everything failing, cause hes a moron? How does that add up?

Debat on.
 

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Because the emperor, after he stole the power from them, was to powerful for any one of the chaos gods to eliminate. His psychic might was astonishing. Simple because they did it doesn't make them vastly more powerful. He had the raw power the problem is its like a generator that can supple more power then the material can cope with, he was human and if he used it all it would fry him.

As to the rest, they simple caught him by surprise, they are powerful.
 

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You`re assuming of course, that the 4 gods actually want the empy dead. I would say the current state of the Imperium is pretty win as far as they`re concerned.

Regardless of how powerful and far seeing the emp was, the fact is he was trying to hold together a race that was apparently the perfect tool of chaos (according to the cabal in Legion).

imo He was always doomed to fail. But he kept trying, he kept resisting Chaos, and in the end he did more for them than they ever could have alone. He united humanity, only to hand it to them piecemeal.

Seems to me, that they were the ones who tricked him.
 

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Sorry but as powerful as the big E is I very much doubt he would last long against the chaos God Tzeentch for long let alone the other 3. Horus just had a minute portion of their power.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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They couldn't directly oppose him in the warp, he couldn't kill them either though. And Horus was only a threat because the emperor refused to end it outright.

I don't trust anything the Cabal says. Humanity is a tool of chaos but chaos also fights against itself. During the heresy, if Horus had won, assuming the cabal is right, humanity would have died and so too would the gods. The gods want the emperor dead and don't at the same time. They arn't logical beings. If the emperor dies the warp will flood the material realm but it would also eliminate their power source. Really they arn't suppose to make any sense.
 

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The problem with measuring the power of beings like the Emperor is he's a plot device, not an actual character. Like the gods of Chaos he's powerful to the point where mortals can fathom his true level of power. He's bound to the body of a human to give him the ability to fail, otherwise 40k never would have happened.

But there are always fun to talk about.

The Emperor would win the battle as he has more tools to win it with.

The custodes are better then a normal Space Marine in every regard. They are stronger, faster, and better equiped. They would utterly smash the bodyguards of the 4 Primarchs in a normal contest. The fight is hardly normal considering the strength of the fighters involved though.

The Emperor has several tools at his command and the most logical first attack is a psy assualt ment to faze or outright kill anyone he can to buy himself time. He would know the limits of Magnus' abilities so he shouldn't have too much trouble making an attack of enough power to give himself a moment of thought.

Now assumeing that the psy attack would outright kill the Marine bodyguards is kinda a no brainer, but the fazing of the primarchs may be a stretch depending on how far into chaos they have fallen. Thats where the Custodes come into play. They may not last long but they will last long enough for the Emperor to do what he needs to do.

Following the psy assualt he would attack Magnus first, as he's own psy abilites would be limited in potency while the cyclops was on the feild. Magnus would go down quick, as physical combat is not his forte, with the other 3 primarchs recovering as Magnus falls.

With Magnus gone Angron and Mort would fall the a psy attack with ease, leaving just Fulgrim standing.

Fulgrim is the wild card in the entire encounter, as he was possesed by a deamon, rather then just assending to deamonhood. We don't really know what kind of effect the assualt would have on a deamon possessing a body would have. Could it kill the now possessed Fulgrim, or would it simply stun him again and force the Emperor to destory Fulgrims body outright? Regardless it is within the Emperors power to do both so his victory is already in the bag.

Disclaimer: The above is assuming no plot devices (aside from the Emperor) were used (He loves them to much as a father to kill them :( ) and all parties wanted/resigned to kill the other with no moral issues clouding their thoughts. :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I agree with the plot device part, but in the other direction. You think the Emps failers is Plot Device to allow this grim dark futur. I on the other hand belive the Emperors awsome feats (Beating Void Dragon, Forseeing all the events, beating Horus with a thought) are plot device. The Emperor being Choked to death by a Ork Warboss, having a nasty surprise when tinkering with the Webway, not forseeing or accepting Horus Treachery, being beaten to near DEATH by Horus... that to me is the real Emperor.
 

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Yes but the only reason he was beaten to near death was his love for horus, otherwise the battle would have lasted only a few minutes... If that. Until we know the age of the ork I really can't judge it.
 

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What we are all forgetting here is that it is always hard to fight multiple opponents at the same time. Skill is irrelevant since even the best warrior can be bested by many lesser beings. I believe that assuming the 4 primarchs attack at the same time (as they should being tactically the best option) then the Big E would be hard pressed to fend them off let alone kill them.
 

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I agree with the plot device part, but in the other direction. You think the Emps failers is Plot Device to allow this grim dark futur. I on the other hand belive the Emperors awsome feats (Beating Void Dragon, Forseeing all the events, beating Horus with a thought) are plot device. The Emperor being Choked to death by a Ork Warboss, having a nasty surprise when tinkering with the Webway, not forseeing or accepting Horus Treachery, being beaten to near DEATH by Horus... that to me is the real Emperor.
The Emperor himself is a plot device. Think about it, if he had the foresight to see the need for the mechanium of Mars, how could he not have forseen the betrayal of Horus? How can a person who is nearly a God be brought low by anything other then a plot device?

I can understand your point, on how his failures are the actual man and success is the plot device, but we never see/hear/read about the failure. We get to hear "Horus saved him from an Ork Warboss" thats it. Nothing else about it. The "Webway surprise" was simply just Magnus screwing it up to set up his own downfall. Yet look at how the Emperor deals with Magnus with respect to Horus. He dispatchs Leman Russ to deal with Magnus knowing full well the hatred Russ has for him and sends the Sisters of Silence with him to ensure a victory. Had the Emperor had the same resolve when he stepped in to fight Horus he would have smashed him with ease. If Horus was killed and the Emperor lived 40k would have been a much different place then we see now.

Take comics as an example, we've seen Superman stand up to forces that hit with the impact of Nukes yet sometimes some dude with a RPG knocks him on his ass? Plot device. The big difference there is Superman is the character and the RPG was the device. In 40k the Emperor is the plot device that the Characters interact with. He is there simply to help the story along, not be the focus.
 

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Tactically thinking, going 1:1, or even 2:1 would still put the might of the Emperor against very powerful figures in their own right. While the Emperor is a figure of absurd strength both in physical force and psyker might. He would be able to best any single character of either trait. 4:1, though, is something of concern. If the Emperor was defeated, it would probably cost of lives of all four primarchs.

Magnus would probably be his first target, knocking out the potent psyker threat. The other three would surround the Emperor and engage in a fury of attacks.

The battle seems almost an assured victory for the Emperor, but, as history has proven, quantity is the greatest quality.
 

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The Emperor built each of his sons, so who else would know better than how to kill them?
The issue with whether or not the big E is god-like or not, is not going to be decided anytime soon. We know that he has guided Humanity for 38000 years, and in that time he has done some utterly impossible things, wringing success and progress from the depths of emptiness and defeat. But the only time we, as readers, get to interact with him, it is the Great Crusade leading into the Heresy. All we get to see are what we call mistakes and missteps. We don't really get to dwell on all of the smashing victories, or backroom coups, that have put Humanity in such a preeminent position in the galaxy. So, how do we judge him? By the fact we see him as someone who guessed wrong. If that's what we know of him, then how can his legacy be seen in the light of triumph and greatness? So, people start to suggest that he's not so great and isn't really anything more than a trumped-up psyker.
Personally, I see him as the greatest shining light Humanity has ever produced. The Great Crusade/Heresy is built around characters that are huge, larger-than-life, heroes who can perform amazing feats because that is what they were expressly created for. I can't stand these massive figures being pulled down because it betrays the mythicness they create. We need to stretch our imaginations so that we can dream that big, not pull these characters down to a more mundane level. My $1.76

GFP
 

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totally agree with that last paragraph from you GFP. if a being who is feared by the chaos powers is nothing more than some super psyker and thats it, why are the powers scared of what he is doing with the great crusade. it doesnt really make me think oh, im not sure if he is all powerful or not but i dont want to know either way. i think they should just let us know what he is/was/gonna be and let our imagination run wild from there.
i mean He isnt going anywhere at the minute so if we know more about Him then it aint gonna make for a bad thing because He is in limbo and that fact can help sustain the current situation but keep us guessing at the same time.

so if we know of his limits or lack of then we could make maybe abit more of a educated guess at if he would win. in the mean time im saying he could take on all 21 primarchs at the same time and destroy them if he wanted. 21 multi-directional super-psychic soul-destroying mindbolt FTW!
 
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