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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys Ive recently come to find a great divide between eldar players who love holo fields and those who despise it. I'm somewhat in the middle right now but these good arguments on both sides. On one hand holo fields does give your wave serpent better protection and on a 120 point tank that's a big deal. However, on the other side of the camp there are a lot of ignores cover weapons and big nasty flying monsters that flat out don't give two shits about holo fields. i want eldar players to reply to this thread on their opinion on holo fields because maybe we can come to a general consensus on the uses of holo fields and their relevance in all comers lists. i bolded that last part because of course thier are some armies which have more ways to deal with holo fields than other armies and in tournaments i feel like you have to bring a list that not only can deal with the super lists of the internet but also be ready to deal with any army. so please post your thoughts so we can make this a good discussion.
 

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personally i think holofields are a must have, especially on serpents. there is a debate raging about whether or not ignores cover actually affects vehicles as is states in the rule book that wounds caused by the weapon ignore cover and seeing as you can't wound a vehicle, vehicles always get a cover save when applicable. a recent real-world ruling in favour of this line of thinking was at the UK Northern Warlords GT at the start of September, where the TO's ruled that you can't wound a vehicle, therefore holofields worked fine against weapons that ignored cover. so yeah, there's my tuppence worth :)
 

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i suppose the argument is mute for 1 simple reason. friendly game probably not needed, competitive or waac is probably a must!
so i would say look at the type of game you generally playing and build a list for that.
 

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I take them by default, but if I absolutely had to drop something, I think I'd drop the holo-field before the chin cannon.
 

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First, should this be moved into the Eldar tactics thread?

I always take them, as priority OVER chin cannons. There may be lots of weapons that ignore cover, and others that ignore cover (the agrument of either ignoring both is another agrument altogether), but I find that these are very useful.

The reason I take them over chin cannons may be personal preference, but the difference between getting an extra 3 shots in (and being within 24", usually not ideal), and having an improved chance of lasting another turn (and thus getting 4 + 2-7 more shots) is far more appealing to me.

Thank goodness the Serpent shield weapon can be used at 48" range. You can really mess up *most* things that can take away your cover, while being outside of the deadzone for tanks (36" for broadsides, Lance weapons, Wraithcannons, etc.).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ok it seems as though the eldar community isn't as split as a thought, Ive just been getting advice in other forums that runs along the "no holofields" group. maybe some naysayers will reply so we can get some different opinions. :victory:
 

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Holofields all the way for me.

Also "Thank goodness the Serpent shield weapon can be used at 48" range."
The Serpent Shield Range is 60" (Eldar Rulebook p.67).
Whilst that may not matter in most games on a 6'x4' Table, it is there to exploit.
 

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There aren't *that* many cover ignoring weapons out there, and they should be a high priority anyways. You don't have to shoot off the shield t1. Unless you're facing off against a blastmaster spamming csm this is not an issue, especially when your serpents, warwalkers and vypers all have the same crap. And good luck trying to get through the cover save with anything less than a fmc. If your opponent decided to land to smash apart your tank, you have more than enough fire to kill it on your turn. And if he vector'd your serpent to death at str 6, he got lucky.

I see no reason not take holofields in a shooty, flakk fire heavy meta.

Also that jargon about vehicles getting a cover save against cover ignoring weapons is the biggest crock I've ever read.
 

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Every god damn time. 4+ instead of 5+ Jink is seriously, seriously good. AV12 is a bitch, to be honest, and ignoring half of all hits is crazy good. Holo-Fields make you tough as hell.

Midnight
 

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It depends on a lot of factors:

- How much terrain are you playing with?
- How much of it blocks LoS?
- How big is the game? 500-5000pts?
- How many tanks do you have? How many of those are Serpents?
- Do you have any Allies? Do they have tanks?

Basically, you need to have some idea of how much firepower each individual tank is going to take. In a 1500pt game where it's the only tank on your side of the table, for example, every single enemy Lascannon/Missile Launcher/Autocannon et al is going to be aimed at your Serpent. 15pts is a good buy.

If, on the other hand, you're looking at 6+ Serpents and Prisms in an 1800pt list, each individual tank is going to take proportionately less fire because units with suboptimal shooting angles will shoot at a Serpent in plain view instead of one that's hidden behind Ruins and therefore getting a 4++ right off the bat. Likewise if you've allied in a unit of Hammernators in a Crusader, that's going to be absorbing a shitload of fire that would otherwise be aimed at your Grav tanks, so you can afford to drop some/all of the fields depending on points.

Also, if you know you're going to be playing on a near-cityfight table where 4++s are abundant, to say nothing of complete LoS blocking then it's a totally different story to Planet Snooker Table with 1-2 forests.

So having weighed all of that up, you can make some kind of informed decision about whether to spend the points on them or not.

Personally, I won't take them every time, and I'll always buy a chin cannon first, because it's my experience and philosophy that the harder you hit your enemy, the less hard he can hit you back. On 4 Serpents most of the time I'd rather spend 40pts to have an extra 12 twin linked S6 shots going at the enemy than 60pts to gain a situational +1 cover save (you can't get it when immobilized, markerlights abound everywhere etc) or 100pts to get both.

When I do strap them on, I tend to put them on Serpents first (it used to be Prisms first, but now people know that Serpents are the real threat, and ignore Prisms for 90% of the game), and prioritise the ones with aggressive cargo such as Swordguard, Storm Guardians, Fire Dragons and so on over ones with simple scoring units like 5 DAs or empty ones that I bought for a cover-camping guardian squad.

TL;DR

I buy cannons first, then gauge how much I need 'Fields. Frequently I skip them, but when I put them on, they go on the lead elements first, and everything else second.
 

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Having played Dark Eldar and Eldar, my vote is with the Holo Fields. I know, all too well, the fail rate of a 5+ invul on an AV 10 Skimmer. So when my AV 12 Skimmer can only rely on cover, you can bet I'll improve it to keep it going. Don't just rely on the stronger armor; take any advantage you can.
 
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