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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there, I've recently started looking into a central theme/idea for a list - that theme would be a leadership tests based list - made to force as many of all the various leadership tests as possible, with as much help as available to help my opponent fail them.

I'm wondering if perhaps people could possibly lend some suggestions/ideas.
First off, I realise this is probably not gonna be ultra competitive. But I'd like to try to get it as competitive as possible. Also, not to rely on one unit "too" much - since there will be 2 or 3 key units that if lost, this idea kinda loses a lot of its impact - so I'd like to try to minimize that loss as much as possible.

Some units to take into consideration:

First and foremost - the Hemlock Wraithfighter, able to cast terrify to remove fearless and forcing nearby successful leadership tests to be rerolled. Since these are the most important/central cogpiece in this theme, I'd like to try to keep these alive for as long as possible. So I'd most likely not be shooting much with this, since I'll be jinking almost every turn if needed - and Jink does not affect Terrify or the Mindshock Pod. I'd also most likely need 2 of these, since 1 will be a massive target once the opponent knows how integral it is to the list. And so priority targets for this list would be skyfire/intercept units before anything else.

Next - Runes of Battle Psykers (Spiritseers, Warlocks). With the hemlocks making leadership tests for the opponent something to be a bit more worried about (chance to negate fearless and immediately force a leadership test that would have to be rerolled if successful), having Horrify would make those leadership tests all the more scary, with -3 to their leadership - Now the possible spanner in the works... random powers - I'd have maximise the amount of Runes of Battle psykers that I have available in the hopes of getting a couple Horrifies (at the very least 1, but 2 or more would be ideal).

I will admit I much prefer the Farseer to the Spiritseer, and since Warlocks have access to the same school as the Spiritseer he may not be 100% necessary (though far more reliable than the warlocks).
Having warlocks in a bunch of guardian units as well as in a seer/jetseer council around the field to spread out the psychic spells would be ideal.

Now we have the core units that enable these leadership tests to be quite a deal more effective than before, lets take a look at the possible ways we can exploit this. i.e forcing those tests!

Pinning, Fear, winning combat, killing more than 25% of a unit in a shooting/movement phase, etc etc.

An obvious choice would be to get some wave serpents for their pinning shields (possibly for the guardian units to ride in)
Maybe even some cheap Rangers (though I personally prefer a little more mobile army, especially with the key component to this list being a very fast flyer)
There's also the Night Spinner.

Winning combat, if it's even by 1 can potentially trigger sweeping advance. So a solid combat unit that is able to guarantee kills while staying alive is obviously the best option here.
Enter the Avatar - with his crazy high initiative of 10 and his ability to challenge and kill that single model before he ever gets to strike back thereby winning combat fairly easily, if the challenge is declined then the Avatar can still at least take on most units by himself, save for dedicated assault units or MC killers.
He also has Fearless, and grants Fearless to all Eldar units within 12" (this helps with the negative of the Mindshock Pod forcing you to reroll your own successful LD tests, since you're now Fearless)
Footslogging Guardian units with their warlocks now tend to look interesting (while the wave serpents would possibly be carrying something else).
He also has Fear as with all monstrous creatures, so is forcing a LD test every fight subphase - After all this, if the Avatar wins said combat, and the enemy flees - the chances of succeeding that sweeping advance is extremely high if not guaranteed against most units.

And onto the topic of monstrous creatures - why not get 1 or 2 wraithlords, with all the benefits of tough monstrous creatures and Fearless, they may also act as multiple threats to keep some of the attention off the Avatar.

Now since 3 monstrous creatures alone (in this list) shouldn't be made to deal with all the combat, good combat units are needed (these guys will most likely be in the wave serpents). This is an area which I am rather unsure of, which units would work the best in this list with this theme. Possibly Wraithblades, who can take quite a punch and who would be troops if a Spiritseer is chosen? Though with their low initiative they will not be easily winning the sweeping advances.

Striking Scorpions seem to be our current go to aspect warriors when it comes to close combat, though they'd most likely not wish to infiltrate for the purposes of engaging as soon as possible since the Hemlock could only come in on turn 2 at the earliest.

Banshees may even be of use here, since there should be a fair amount of pinning going around, even their lack of grenades wouldn't matter too much. Coupled with their high initiative and the Exarch able to get fear, they are certainly looking far more attractive than before.

So plenty of suggestions are welcome there ;)

With the 2 hemlocks, the Avatar, 2 wraithlords and 2 - 3 wave serpents putting out tons of shots, I'm hoping that just between those units that there is enough threat saturation (since all benefit/add to this theme in some way) to help keep the attention spread out and away from the hemlocks a bit.

On the topic of killing more than 25% of a unit in the shooting phase to force a LD test, well.. I think the guardians/wave serpents would manage to cover that. Though a unit of warwalkers might be a nice addition.

So, I "think" that is everything that I've currently thought of - my deepest apologies for the wall of text, but I'm really trying to see if this is potentially tournament viable.

Once again, any suggestions/tactics are gladly welcomed and maybe this even helped someone find some ideas themselves - thanks in advance!

6,741 Posts
Illic Nightspear
Farseer (rolls once on Divination, once on Fate)
Seer Council with 2 Bikes, 2 on foot to join the Dire Avengers
4x5 Pathfinders
2x9 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents with Lances
3 Hemlock Wraithfighters
3 Night Spinners

So... HQ is Pinning or rerolling Pinning shots, Troops are Pinning, anti-tank or damage/scoring, Fast Attack is morale trickery, Heavy Support is Pinning, extra-FOC unit is -Leadership. And the whole army has cover saves.

Pinning is the best one to take advantage of, as most armies are immune to Fear and all Marines are essentially immune to falling back. No army, however, bar Imperial Guard, has pinning immunity without Fearless, and even IG have to sacrifice an order to attempt to fix the problem.


1,825 Posts
Members of a Warlock Seer Council cannot join Dire Avengers. But substituting them for Gaurdians, which Warlocks can join can still make the list work.

4,190 Posts
The downside of the Guardians-in-Serpents-with-Warlocks plan is that Horrify is only 18" range and has to be cast at the start of the turn, and you need line of sight. That means you need to drive up (moving more than 6" and therefore unable to disembark), disembark (close to the enemy) and then finally on turn 3, you can start casting Horrify. That's just not good enough.

If you did want to use Horrify to any actual advantage, you'd need to take one of two approaches: Jetbikes or Wraithguard (or mix the two). Jetbikes can turbo 48", allowing you to start casting from turn 2 with Warlocks, and can dance out of range with their assault move. However you only get 1 power per Warlock and it's Ld8 (far from a sure thing). Wraithguard with Spiritseers, on the other hand, get two powers apiece and Ld9, but are slower and tougher.

Obviously you need at least two Hemlocks if you want to make the concept work, and I'd recommend 3 because they're hardly tough. They are, however, very expensive, so consider that when deciding on numbers.

If you're taking MCs such as the Avatar and Wraithlords, you don't need any combat Troops. All our melee infantry is actually terrible in combat. We're a shooting army and that's that. Resist all temptation.

So with that in mind, if I were to attempt this list it'd look something like:

5-8 Wraithguard/Blades with Scatter/Cannon Serpent (you don't need to be in the Serpent)
5-8 Wraithguard/Blades with Scatter/Cannon Serpent
6 Jetbikes with Warlock
6 Jetbikes with Warlock
2 Hemlocks
D-Cannon Battery with Warlock (all barrage weapons are pinning)
Wraithlord with Bright Lance(s), Sword (or Missile Launchers because they pin too)
Wraithlord with Bright Lance(s), Sword

Or something along those lines. Advance mid-table with the Wraith units and use the Serpents and Jetbikes for flanking attacks.
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