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Discussion Starter #1
Assuming that FW is legal and widly available - in other words, pretend the Phoenix was a GW model.

I'm curious what people think of the two aircraft, side by side. I rather like the firepower loadout the CH possesses, and it's fairly cheap for what it can do as an Anti-Air and Anti-Armor unit. I'm going to leave out the Exarch upgrades, as most people feel the CH needs to be fielded in more than one to be effective and not shot down immediately.

On the other hand, the Phoenix also possesses a decent payload, though it's mixed weaponry, ranging from Shuricannons (amazing now in the new codex against infantry), to Phoenix Missiles (more PA3 to go with the Bladestorm) for hunting MEQ, and then an option of either Starcannons or Bright Lances. I usually go with the Lances to give me some anti armor, and find that these bad boys can hunt anything effectively. On top of that, I think, if I remember it right off the top of my head, it's got more armor than the CH, and the Shrouded rules for an added save on top of the Zooming benefits. On the other hand, it's about 80 points more.

Added bonus, in my mind? It's a Heavy Support, where the Eldar already have alot of decent fast attacks if you're going for a fast army.

Where do other people stand on this one?
 

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Its difficult to know without the stats of the Phoenix to know which is better. Are they available on Forgrworld site or do you need to get one of the FW books to use it?
 

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Latest rules for the Pheonix and the Nightwing are in IA: Aeronautica.

Nightwing Interceptor (Fast Attack):
Crimson Hunter Stats -1HP -15Points
- Deep Strike, Supersonic, Vector Dancer, Shrouded, Agile(Increases Jink Save by +1)
- 2x Shuriken Cannons
- 2x Bright Lances

Phoenix Bomber (Heavy Support):
Crimson Hunter Stats +65Points
- Deep Strike, Supersonic, Vector Dancer, Shrouded, Strafing Run
- 2x Shuriken Cannons
- 1x Pulse Laser
- 2x Phoenix Missile Launcher (48" S5 AP3 Hvy3)
- May replace Pulse Laser with:
-- 1x TW Bright Lances, or
-- 1x TW Starcannons.
- May replace both Phoenix Missile Launchers with:
-- 2x Nightfire Missile Launchers (48" S4 AP5 Hvy3 Blast/Ignores Cover/Pinning)
 

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Added bonus, in my mind? It's a Heavy Support, where the Eldar already have alot of decent fast attacks if you're going for a fast army.
I would completely disagree here, I have always struggled to fill my FA slots and my heavy support slots are crammed full, I am not 100% sure this still stands but the changes in the dex don't make me think I will be any more free in HS.

This is simply the dealbreaker for the Phoenix for me, it is an expensive HS choice, in a slot I fill with ease. The crimson hunter on the other hand has a nice loadout, fills a slot I have often left empty and can hunt down flyers or troublesome ground units.

I am sold on the hunter, I will be fielding a few and might even stretch to a load of them in apocalypse to go 'hunting' with (not that I will drop my three Phoenix though)
 

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It's a hard comparison since they both do very different things.

The Phoenix is there as a pure attack bomber. Evident from the Strafing Run and the amount of shots it pumps out that are not necessarily at the right S value for fighting flyers.

The Crimson Hunter on the other hand is there for anti-flyer work and little work. To this end it works very well but you can't really compare them.

A fairer comparison woud be the Crimson Hunter compared to the Nightwing since they fill the same role and both are FA choices.
 

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I don't have a Nightwing, how does this fare up against the Crimson Hunter, I have often considered buying one but now am not sure as I can buy two of the plastic kit for the price of the FW one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I would completely disagree here, I have always struggled to fill my FA slots and my heavy support slots are crammed full, I am not 100% sure this still stands but the changes in the dex don't make me think I will be any more free in HS.

This is simply the dealbreaker for the Phoenix for me, it is an expensive HS choice, in a slot I fill with ease. The crimson hunter on the other hand has a nice loadout, fills a slot I have often left empty and can hunt down flyers or troublesome ground units.

I am sold on the hunter, I will be fielding a few and might even stretch to a load of them in apocalypse to go 'hunting' with (not that I will drop my three Phoenix though)
The reason I say this is because in Saim Hann, which is my favorite Eldar craftworld, I'd be loading my FA slots. Between Vypers and Hornets, I'm fully packed with light 'tanks' to keep up with my bikes, as they fit the fluff better. In that sort of situation, the Phoenix as a Heavy Support is pretty much the ultimate Heavy Support for the craftworld.


@Bubble: I'm actually not a fan of the CH model, or the Phoenix or Nightwing. My goal, if I put all of this together, is to heavily modify Razorwings.
 

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Ok, from a fluff perspective you generally justify a "best" unit to yourself - and the phoenix is likely your choice there.

But from a competitive or moderately competitive perspective I would not be filling my FA slots with Vypers (shame they don't seem to have got better - was really hoping) or Hornets (they cost soooo much, but when points go out the window in apoc I would take quite a few).

I'm hoping to put a list together this weekend for my first fielding of new-Eldar and will be trying out my hunters, let's hope they are as good as they look.
 
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