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Discussion Starter #1
This is the eldar list I've been toying around with and have gotten mixed reviews from "Ahhh! You can't do that!" to "I think that will work nicely." That being the case, I submit it for your perusal and comment.

HQ:

Farseer- Doom, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones

Avatar

Elites:


10 Bainshees- Exarch with executioner
Wave Serpent- Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin-Linked EML, Spirit Stones

10 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin-Linked Scatter Laser

Troops:

10 Rangers- pathfinders

10 Rangers- Pathfinders

Fast Attack:

8 Swooping Hawks- Exarch with Skyleap and Intercept

Heavy Support:

Wraithlord- Wraithsword, EML

Fire Prism- Vectored Engines

Fire Prism- Vectored Engines

This is just under 2000 points and is not yet optimized. I should explain a few choices now so there is less confusion.

HQ:
Farseer- Stays with the gunline and acts as close support anti-tank and keeps the wriathsight from affecting the wraithlord.

Avatar- Plays goalie and acts as a counter assault unit to keep the pathfinders safe.

Elites:
Bainshees- They go hunting for enemy heavy weapon squads and otehr targets of opportunity. Their Falcon has an EML for anti-tank on the go and to hopefully pin potential assaultees in place.

Fire Dragons- The main anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry squad, I gave them enough numbers so taht they can act for a prolonged period unsupported. Their falcon has teh scatter laser to mow down infantry on the flank they choose to hit tanks on.

Troops:
Pathfinders- These guys are just listed as squads of 10 to keep things simple. Obviously they can be broken into small squads on a whim. I choose to take so many because I feel they are the best Eldar troops choice and will be more useful on a gunline than Dire Avengers. Hopefully they will pin down large squads for the Prisms to destroy at range.

Fast Attack-

Swooping Hawks- My girlfriend loves these and so she's already picked them up. Hopefully they can deepstrike in, take out an enemy main tank, and if they get into trouble, skyleap away to safety before the enemy claims too many of them.

Heavy Support:

Wraithlord- He stays back with the farseer and avatar on the gunline and acts as a counter assault unit. The wraithsword may get dropped for a lance if I can find the points but I like the idea of keeping him cheap and expecting him to be a big target for death.

Fire prisms- Pretty self explanitory: banked shot for pie plate anti-meq, lots of anti-horde control and solid anti-tank vehicles all rolled into one. No holofields or spirit stones simply because the points aren't there and if they keep moving so tehy can only be glanced, teh vectored engines will save them from a bad crash.

Things that have already been bought for the army include: The bainshees, 5 swooping hawks, 5 fire dragons, 10 path finders, a wave serpent, fire prism, farseer and wraithlord. Your comments are appreciated.
 

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First, hello. I was invited to join this board after someone saw my recent Trophies on my blog. So here I am :)

Second, I used to live in Columbus and play at Guard Tower, wonder if I know you?

Anyway, your army is rather good. I am trying to find what your army is. Is it a mix of assault and shooting, or mostly assault? To the list!

Large squads are nice to have but no ideal, I would cut a few out of each squad to upgrade the Skimmers. This would lead you to not lose them as easily. Rolling 2 dice and picking the lowest is a must. In a take all comers list, denying points for the skimmers crashing is huge. Don't skimp on the upgrades here.

I am a big fan of the 2 Fire prism's, but not sure what the Wraithlord is lending you, fire support ok but he is slow and does not seem to fit in, I think you might be better served with a Falcon or some War Walkers(which look great now)

I would take an exarch for the Dragons with a flamer, as that would help you root troops out of cover. I know that is not optimal, but you want the sqaud to kill what it shoots, and it will with a flamer and the other dragons.

Banshees are eh, they just don't cut it when compared to the other elites. I play Dark Eldar, and I do not fear banshees at all. Really I would think Harlies, or even scorpions would be more survivable and allow you to shoot longer.(My guess is you want to be shooty) If you went with either Harlies(new box comes out shortly) or Scorpions you could dump the transport and spend the points elsewhere.

The Avatar is great now, but still slow :( I don't mind him as really he keeps your guys from running and can get into assault if necessary, however I think the Avatar should be replaced by an Auturach to help out the Skyleaping Hawks. The Farseer is fine for the list.

2 Squads of Rangers(Pathfinders) are bland and not that effective imo. Sure they excel at taking down high toughness units, but they have a hard time with armor, and hordes. I think one medium squad of pathfinders and Dire Avengers would fit your needs more.

Just some quick thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it greatly. When I do play, it's always at the Guard Tower, but I've only lived here in Columbus for about a year so I don't know if you'd have known me.

I designed this list not to be any one thing but more of a mix of various units that can compliment eachother. It is not designed to be a tricked out tournament pony and is largely a friendly game type of force. When ever I build a force, I always want to include units that can handle any contingency. It should also be noted that this force is not really for me but my girlfriend, so some units have to stay on account of her love of them.

I can't drop the bainshees for scorpions or harlies because she likes them too much. WHile she might change her mind once she has some experience, this is how it stands for now. Do you think I should reduce the bainshees and Firedragon squads to 8 a piece so I can afford more skimmer upgrades? I've never been big on putting a lot of poinnts into vehicles, but I do see the value here.

What concerns me about dire avengers is their range. If they act in support of pathfinders, I think they'll end up not shooting anything for the first 2 turns of the game and by the time they do get in range, they'll likely get assaulted the next turn. I could see getting around this by mounting them in a serpent but then I'll be running them as support for the firedragons instead of the gun line. Do you feel Dire Avengers are a worthwhile tool if unmounted?

The wriathlord in this context is lending me a counter assault element to keep things like assault squads and the like off of teh pathfinders, who's only major weakness is in the assault. I felt that the bainshees should be on the go while teh slower units (avatar and wraithlord) guard the firebase. The hardest part of getting a wraithlord or avatar into the assault is their speed, so by guarding the very powerful and expensive pathfinders, the enemy is given a bad situation. They can either try to get to the pathfinders with assault troops, or get shot to pieces by them. If they stay away, they'll get torn apart by all the ap1 shots that will come from 20 pathfinders (6-7 a turn). If they do close the distance to try and silence the pathfinders, that will make the avatar and wraithlord's job of seeing cc extraordinarily easy.

The pathfinders are not good at taking out hordes, as you said, and so that's why I included the fire prisms. Even if the pathfinders fail to bring many horde-type creatures down a turn, two pieplates will certainly do some major damage. Pathfinders are also not good at bringing down armor, as you said, but that's why the wraithlord and a serpent both have eml's, plus add in the firedragons at power and the fireprisms str 9 shot and it seems like a solid quantity of anti-tank fire each round.

This is all speculation on my part of course since I've never played with an eldar army, let alone one from the new codex, I just want to be claer about what I was thinking when I choose each item in the list.

I wanted to take the dragon's breath flamer but just didn't have the points to spare. The reason I did not opt for an autarch is that I didn't feel he was worth having just to enhance the Swooping Hawks. I felt that the Avatar did far more for the pathfinders by making them fearless and acting as a counter assault unit than the Autarch would do for the hawks by just giving them +1 to their reserves roll. I plan on using skyleap as a last resort to save the squad and keep them from being wiped out for vps should something bad happen, not as an every turn trick.

I'd love to hear more of your or anyone's thoughts on my ideas, please correct me if my thinking is off base on any point.
 

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consider taking TL shuriken cannon+hull shuriken cannon on the fire dragon squad since range isn't really an issue for the transport.

6 s6 ap5 for 20 points (half twin linked) vs 4 s6 ap6 for 25 points (all twin linked)

does your girlfriend really love wraithlords? because I think the avatar does the counter assault job fine on his own and some scatter laser war walkers would be really nice in this list.

the 10 man banshee squad seems a little heavy for the heavy weapon slayers as they're likely to get shot up after wiping out anything they charge.

I would definetly consider getting some harlequins into this list (possibly by lowering the squad sizes of all your units) they are a fun unit that can be relied on in almost any situation.

your farseer has spirit stones but only one power, so do something about that, I'd switch the stones for runes of warding myself.

an 8 man fire dragon squad with crack shot flamexarch would probably prove more effective than the 10 man squad you have in there.
you should even consider dropping them to 6 and turning the wraithlord into a falcon.
 

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snipped a bit

Warboss Dakka said:
I always want to include units that can handle any contingency.

Do you think I should reduce the bainshees and Firedragon squads to 8 a piece so I can afford more skimmer upgrades? I've never been big on putting a lot of poinnts into vehicles, but I do see the value here.

What concerns me about dire avengers is their range. If they act in support of pathfinders, I think they'll end up not shooting anything for the first 2 turns of the game and by the time they do get in range, they'll likely get assaulted the next turn. I could see getting around this by mounting them in a serpent but then I'll be running them as support for the firedragons instead of the gun line. Do you feel Dire Avengers are a worthwhile tool if unmounted?

The pathfinders are not good at taking out hordes, as you said, and so that's why I included the fire prisms. Even if the pathfinders fail to bring many horde-type creatures down a turn, two pieplates will certainly do some major damage. Pathfinders are also not good at bringing down armor, as you said, but that's why the wraithlord and a serpent both have eml's, plus add in the firedragons at power and the fireprisms str 9 shot and it seems like a solid quantity of anti-tank fire each round.
I'll take these in order. First, Eldar are a specialty unit type race. They are not a well rounded troop versus everything army like say marines can be. You need to take a rock scissor paper approach. This unit can beat that unit, but is vulnerable to those.

Skimmer upgrades are important for Eldar, otherwise it is very easy to crash skimmers even with glancings. First, Fire Prisms can hide and can easily put the rear armor on the board edge, so learn that little trick. I think I already read a tactica on Fire Prisms here, so print that off and you should be all set on them. I would trim the squads down to 8 and beef up on upgrades. Banshees do not suck, I just think other Elites are a tad better for survivability and overall use. If you are going to take an exarch take advantage of the upgrades they get, they are what make the squad powerful.

Dire avengers are great, and the exarch can make them a tar pit unit. This means they lock up big nasties while you get away and get into position to slag them when they eventually take down the DA's. Remember that you seem to want to be shooty with a bit of assault. The Avatar is going to protect you more than you know. Non mounted DA's is a solid base, and many armies will come to you, so they will get their shots. That is what bladestorm is for, empty that clip :)

Consider instead of that second pathfinder squad a Virbo cannon, super great choice that if you peruse what it does can lock down a unit for you. It is also cheaper that all those pathfinders that you will want to stick in cover.

The new Warwalker squadron with the various weapons are great looking and deserve a look as well. Guide yhrm and stick them in cover, wow they are tough.

I do think you have adequate anti-tank, but anti horde is what I see more lately.

This army with a few changes will do well once we settle on a few tactics. Think shooty with counterassault is your bag.

I plan on visiting Ohio for Origins. Maybe I will see you there.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Firsty, thanks again for the replies, I appreciate the input. The spirit stones are a typo from when I had guide on the farseer along with doom, I forgot to change them out with runes of warding. Thanks for pointing out that bit of misinformation, don't want people to be confused.

I very much like the change to 6 str 6 ap 5 isntead of 4 str 6 ap 6 shots, I'd not thought of that combination. Woot.

If I drop the second pathfinders, I'll not need two big critters for counter assault and thus can loose the Wraithlord probably, though that would mean we've got two old wriathlords sitting aroound collecting dust, maybe we can E-bay them once they are painted up nice.

I really like the idea of both vibro cannons and warwalkers who are guided with scatterlasers, but taking both will mean losing both the wraithlord and a fire prisim, which I feel is best used in a pair, especially against the horde of MEQ armies out there. Given a choice between either the vibro cannons or warwalkers, which do you feel is better? It seems to me that the warwalkers would be better since they are as useful against both light vehicles and massed infantry but then vibro cannons will be great against any vehicle they hit.

I'll juggle a few things around and post a new list and you guys can tell me what you think. Thanks again for all the advice.
 

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Warboss Dakka said:
HQ:

Farseer- Doom, Singing Spear ok u dont really need the spear, but its ur call. i would suggest spirit stones and fortune though.

Avatar nothin bad here

Elites:


10 Banshees- Exarch with executioner
Wave Serpent- Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin-Linked EML, Spirit Stones
nothin bad.

10 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin-Linked Scatter Laser
why 10? knock um down to six and throw um in a falcon. it cheaper and the falcon'll do more dmg the a serpent

Troops:

10 Rangers- pathfinders

10 Rangers- Pathfinders
ok

Fast Attack:

8 Swooping Hawks- Exarch with Skyleap and Intercept
NO. Swooping hawks in he new dex suk royally. Spend an extra point a model and get warp spiders. better save and a higher strength gun.
Heavy Support:

Wraithlord- Wraithsword, EML
uhhhh. Y. Drop this guy altogether for a falcon.
Fire Prism- Vectored Engines

Fire Prism- Vectored Engines
ok i can see these in there.
 

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first off your farseer has spiritstones but no second power is listed?

Dragonsbreath flamer is all kinds of awesome, even if just for the model i think its a must. Split the pathfinders in 3x6 man squads to give more flexibility.

spiritstones is a must for the prisms so dont leave home without it.
 

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Could also look to get twin Shuriken cannons on your Waveserpant, same price but more shots. Less range but you'll be wanting to get fairly close with the Dragons on board anyhow.
Also agree with Jigplums pointers.
 

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HQ:

Farseer- Doom, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones

**Why stones? You only have one power :? Get runes of witnessing. V. useful in shutting down psychic powers.

Avatar

**Too slow for this kind of list for me. He really benefits foot-sloggers. I'd go for a jetbike Autarch to keep up and help with reserves.

Elites:

10 Bainshees- Exarch with executioner
Wave Serpent- Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin-Linked EML, Spirit Stones

**Not a big fan of squads of 10, 8 will do the job easily enough for less points. Star Engines are a bit worthless for me, any Serpent left exposed right in the opponents face first turn at 2K will be brought down, if its not there turn 1, then why bother?

10 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- Vectored Engines, Star Engines, Twin-Linked Scatter Laser

**Again, 10 is overkill. 8 or even 6 should be enough to massacre that one unit before they get wiped out in return. Which it will. Again, Star engines is a waste of points, especially as these guys have a 27" threat range. And it NEEDS Spirit stones to keep moving and drop its cargo. Drop the scatters to 2x shuriken cannon for more shots.

Troops:

10 Rangers- pathfinders

10 Rangers- Pathfinders

**I'd personally split these guys into 4x5. More coverage, more infiltrate pushback opportunities, can split their fire.

Fast Attack:

8 Swooping Hawks- Exarch with Skyleap and Intercept

**I don't like these guys full stop, but if you do then fair enough.

Heavy Support:

Wraithlord- Wraithsword, EML

**Wraithsword is pretty poor, go for the lance/EML combo IMO.

Fire Prism- Vectored Engines

Fire Prism- Vectored Engines

**Eldar skimmers NEED their defensive upgrades. Holo-field and Spirit stones are pretty much mandatory, VE are an expensive safety net if you really want it. I'd consider VE for a Falcon, but not a long-range fire support tank.
With the points you have spare I'd give these 2 shuriken cannons. Very useful giving you some use if the cannon gets blown off.
 
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