Earth in Warhammer40K
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Sure. How many of them have actually fought before? How many of them have lead entire lives of violence? They can call on them, whoopty-do. The Imperium can all upon every single person in the Imperium (indeed they do, some just serve by making weapons instead of shooting them). Their regiments are all the fiercest, most [email protected]$$ men alive. I thin it might even be debatable calling them men at this point.
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5,262 Posts
I personally know and work with someone who was hit in the chest by a 7.62 round in a firefight. It flung him off the WMIK he was on and dazed him, but then he just said "what the fuck was that?!" got up quite pissed off, got back behind his .50cal and started bringing walls down. Good bloke ^^
And exactly, they can call up those people, but they aren't trained soldiers, they will be useless in a firefight, and its gonna be hard to call up all these people without all main forms of communications gone and no satelite imagery to see where the enemy is and to co-ordinat against them. And yeah, the Imperium can just keep calling more troops.
EDIT: oh and Eisenhorn is about and Inquisitor of the same name and his exploits. But in the second book he happens to be on a planet as the crusading army triumphantly parades through, and its from reading that, that i truely got a perspective on just how large the forces are the Imperium can muster and not even for a major huge crusade. Its quite awe insipringly large. Amazing book series, i fully recomend it
And exactly, they can call up those people, but they aren't trained soldiers, they will be useless in a firefight, and its gonna be hard to call up all these people without all main forms of communications gone and no satelite imagery to see where the enemy is and to co-ordinat against them. And yeah, the Imperium can just keep calling more troops.
EDIT: oh and Eisenhorn is about and Inquisitor of the same name and his exploits. But in the second book he happens to be on a planet as the crusading army triumphantly parades through, and its from reading that, that i truely got a perspective on just how large the forces are the Imperium can muster and not even for a major huge crusade. Its quite awe insipringly large. Amazing book series, i fully recomend it
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That's exactly the Guards logic. So the problem with China's recruit army is that a) the Guard have greater numbers and b) the Guard have superior training. Either individually can be overcome, but if you're relying on numbers to beat a numerically superior foe you're screwed. Plain and simple.
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69 Posts
My thoughts:
Ever seen the film 300?
Superior numbers=epic faiL if the numbers are in a tight, narrow space fighting better trained soldiers
I don't know how fast Imperial Fighters can go, but an F-22 Raptor could just lock onto it and blow it up.
Naval:
I actually don't know much about the Imperial Sea Forces (Imperial Navy is actually the Space Ships)
What we have:
Good training
Home advantage
What the Imperials have:
Titans
The option to orbitally bombard the crap out of us
Numbers
Years of selective breeding
Astrates possibly
LASER GUNS, THEY HAVE LASE GUNS FOR GOD'S SAKE, WE DON'T!!
Adamantium and Ceramite armour.
The 1000s of years of war experience.
1000s of years of selective breeding
Ever seen the film 300?
Superior numbers=epic faiL if the numbers are in a tight, narrow space fighting better trained soldiers
I don't know how fast Imperial Fighters can go, but an F-22 Raptor could just lock onto it and blow it up.
Naval:
I actually don't know much about the Imperial Sea Forces (Imperial Navy is actually the Space Ships)
What we have:
Good training
Home advantage
What the Imperials have:
Titans
The option to orbitally bombard the crap out of us
Numbers
Years of selective breeding
Astrates possibly
LASER GUNS, THEY HAVE LASE GUNS FOR GOD'S SAKE, WE DON'T!!
Adamantium and Ceramite armour.
The 1000s of years of war experience.
1000s of years of selective breeding
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1,094 Posts
The Imperial fleet pulls into Earth orbit. At some point we decide that we don't want to play with them, so they decide to slap us around a bit.
Firstly, they could quite easily destroy the satellites that we depend on for navigation and communication. Once they do that, the more advanced military nations have lost most of whatever advantage they have. No more stand-off use of Cruise missiles, no more real-time battlefield info.
Sitting in orbit, if they don't fancy getting dirty, they could just start taking out power stations and water treatment plants. This won't be hard as even a shot that's not spot-on is going to cause a hell of a lot of damage. It is these actions that would push us to surrender, moreso than fighting, as modern society is totally unprepared for such things to happen and majorly unwilling to put up with the hardships that would follow.
If it came down to fighting, then even our greatest weapons (outside of nukes) wouldn't really help, because we don't have the manouverabilty to match those coming down from orbit. BY the time we've redeployed to face the threat, the fighting will be done. All that we'll do by transporting troops and materiel would be to provide tempting targets for the IN. If it did come down to fighting then no matter how good our MBTs are, there are two big problems. There are so few of them and, if they do get seriously damaged, they are complex to repair. However, there would be no need to actually fight them; an Astartes, or even Stormtrooper, strike on the refuelling/repair/rearming depot would effectively take them out of any fighting- without fuel they're going nowhere.
With all of these things going on, I don't think that there would be any need to a full-scale invasion. In fact the political divisions of our world would probably hamstring us utterly, with different countries wanting to join the Imperium and others resisting, some for personal gain, some to make others countries have a hard time and others for ideological reasons.
I suppose you could say that any race that can travel interstellar distances and make threats of violence will be able to take out any race that isn't able to make free use of space, even within its own planetary system.
GFP
Firstly, they could quite easily destroy the satellites that we depend on for navigation and communication. Once they do that, the more advanced military nations have lost most of whatever advantage they have. No more stand-off use of Cruise missiles, no more real-time battlefield info.
Sitting in orbit, if they don't fancy getting dirty, they could just start taking out power stations and water treatment plants. This won't be hard as even a shot that's not spot-on is going to cause a hell of a lot of damage. It is these actions that would push us to surrender, moreso than fighting, as modern society is totally unprepared for such things to happen and majorly unwilling to put up with the hardships that would follow.
If it came down to fighting, then even our greatest weapons (outside of nukes) wouldn't really help, because we don't have the manouverabilty to match those coming down from orbit. BY the time we've redeployed to face the threat, the fighting will be done. All that we'll do by transporting troops and materiel would be to provide tempting targets for the IN. If it did come down to fighting then no matter how good our MBTs are, there are two big problems. There are so few of them and, if they do get seriously damaged, they are complex to repair. However, there would be no need to actually fight them; an Astartes, or even Stormtrooper, strike on the refuelling/repair/rearming depot would effectively take them out of any fighting- without fuel they're going nowhere.
With all of these things going on, I don't think that there would be any need to a full-scale invasion. In fact the political divisions of our world would probably hamstring us utterly, with different countries wanting to join the Imperium and others resisting, some for personal gain, some to make others countries have a hard time and others for ideological reasons.
I suppose you could say that any race that can travel interstellar distances and make threats of violence will be able to take out any race that isn't able to make free use of space, even within its own planetary system.
GFP
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Precisely. If any space faring race came upon us, we would either join them or be destroyed by them, it's as simple as that imo. We have no hope of beating anything that advanced, despite what the films may lead you to believe.
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We have one weapon that the Imperium could not match; we have Psy-war-ops (Physiological war operations). We would wait until they were in range and then flood their vox with songs from Susan Boyle. Total torture… fleet turns around… f#ck off. End of invasion
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As long as we have Will Smith, we shall endure.
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so all we have to do is force to come at us from one specific direction, preferably through a mountain pass or similar. Unfortunately, the Imperium can land any where they want and complete surround us. Superior numbers=easy victory if they have the enemy surrounded. Not to mention the fact that the Imperial Guard will be better trained and more experienced than almost anything we can throw at them.
Assuming that it can lock on and penetrate it's armour of course. We have no idea what kind of anti-lock equipment they have, or how durable their fighters are to conventional weaponry.
They don't really have a navy (as in for sea). Some Guard regiments include boats (primarily from heavily water-based worlds) but beyond that it's pretty nonexistent. That being said, they don't need one. They have an air force that can deploy from orbit and resupply there as well. Kinda makes boats irrelevant.
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5,116 Posts
If that fails we could hit them with the Bieber bomb, no music or anything, we just throw Justin Bieber at them really fucking hard!
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I think if we exposed them to Bieber or Suebo they would order exterminatus, best we kill them and wipe all records of the both of them before they find out
And poor Will Smith
*Runs up to drop pod, doors open*
"Welcome to Ea-
*Astartes emerge"
"earth...."
And poor Will Smith
*Runs up to drop pod, doors open*
"Welcome to Ea-
*Astartes emerge"
"earth...."
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392 Posts
As bad as this arguement is getting..... If a Ork tech can kill an Imperium fighter, how is it that our fighters would not be better, if not a match?
The standard fighters of the imperium are the Lightning, Lightning Strike and the Thunderbolt.
Speed:
Each of the 3 fighters has a maximum speed of around 2200-2400km/h.
Eurofighter typhoon as 2,495km/h effectively around the same mark then.
A draw. Eurofighter 0.5, imperium 0.5
Armaments:
The standard weapons on a imperial fighter are..... line of sight guns and a maximum of upto a whole 6 missiles(max of 6 on the lightning strike).
*Autocannons & lascannons, 100-400 rounds for the autocannon and only 30 shots for the lascannon.
*Hellstrike missiles, thunderbolt can have upto 4 bombs if not missiles
Standard armament of a Eurofighter typhoon.
*27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 150 rounds
* 13 Harspoints that can carry (including but not limited to), Various Air-to-air missiles, Various Air-to-Ground missiles, Laserguided bombs, "dumb" bombs, Bunker buster bombs, Additional electronic counter measures and even Drop away fule tanks giving extended range.
Eurofighter wins. EuroFighter 1.5, imperium 0.5
Maneuverability:
Imperial fighters are Flying bricks, more engine than plane in most cases.
The Eurofighter is one of the most maneuverable planes known about today, designed to fly fast and agile. It's better aerodynamically than any of the other 3 Imperial fighters.
Eurofighter wins. Eurofighter 2.5, Imperium 0.5
Survivability:
The imperial fighters have between 30-45mm of armour, Gunfire from small calibre weapons won't do much against it. It's a safe bet that it's ot explosive reactive armour cos on a plane, that would pretty much fuck it up in flight. It has countermeasures
such as flares and chaff. The imperium is more focused on heavy armour than secondary systems like optics or targeting aids.
Eurofighter Typhoon relies on high maneuverability, a low radar cross section (combined with the use of Radar Absorbant Materials) and countermeasures such as Flares & chaff and Electronic coutermeasure that can jam or misdirect radar guided weapons.
I'd say a draw, whilst the Imperial fighters can take more Gunfire, missiles are designed to to destroy Hard targets, a smaller missile such as a Sidewinder might not completely destroy the Imperial fighters but it would at the very least cripple it or cause it to be taken out of the sky by the blast force affecting its trajectory. The combination of electronic countermeasures, regular countermeasures, high maneuverability and a low radar cross section aid it's survivability.
Draw, Eurofighter Typhoon 3, Imperium 1
See where this is going, the Imperial fighters are a blunt force relying on heavy cannons and thick armour and pure brute speed. Where as the Eurofighter (and most of the current "earth" figthers) is a weapon of finesse, it's more versatile in roles than the Imperial fighters in atmosphere, its much more maneuverable, it has better in flight systems and countermeasures against attacks. It even has better optics for night flying and smarter targeting arrays.
Our planes are a combination of technology that we understand and constantly improve, valueing speed, maneuverability, onboard technology and weapon versatility over heavy armour and big guns.
Also, if a fighters main weapons are cannons and some hellstrike missiles, How can it be said that they are better than using nukes in a space combat?
The standard fighters of the imperium are the Lightning, Lightning Strike and the Thunderbolt.
Speed:
Each of the 3 fighters has a maximum speed of around 2200-2400km/h.
Eurofighter typhoon as 2,495km/h effectively around the same mark then.
A draw. Eurofighter 0.5, imperium 0.5
Armaments:
The standard weapons on a imperial fighter are..... line of sight guns and a maximum of upto a whole 6 missiles(max of 6 on the lightning strike).
*Autocannons & lascannons, 100-400 rounds for the autocannon and only 30 shots for the lascannon.
*Hellstrike missiles, thunderbolt can have upto 4 bombs if not missiles
Standard armament of a Eurofighter typhoon.
*27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 150 rounds
* 13 Harspoints that can carry (including but not limited to), Various Air-to-air missiles, Various Air-to-Ground missiles, Laserguided bombs, "dumb" bombs, Bunker buster bombs, Additional electronic counter measures and even Drop away fule tanks giving extended range.
Eurofighter wins. EuroFighter 1.5, imperium 0.5
Maneuverability:
Imperial fighters are Flying bricks, more engine than plane in most cases.
The Eurofighter is one of the most maneuverable planes known about today, designed to fly fast and agile. It's better aerodynamically than any of the other 3 Imperial fighters.
Eurofighter wins. Eurofighter 2.5, Imperium 0.5
Survivability:
The imperial fighters have between 30-45mm of armour, Gunfire from small calibre weapons won't do much against it. It's a safe bet that it's ot explosive reactive armour cos on a plane, that would pretty much fuck it up in flight. It has countermeasures
such as flares and chaff. The imperium is more focused on heavy armour than secondary systems like optics or targeting aids.
Eurofighter Typhoon relies on high maneuverability, a low radar cross section (combined with the use of Radar Absorbant Materials) and countermeasures such as Flares & chaff and Electronic coutermeasure that can jam or misdirect radar guided weapons.
I'd say a draw, whilst the Imperial fighters can take more Gunfire, missiles are designed to to destroy Hard targets, a smaller missile such as a Sidewinder might not completely destroy the Imperial fighters but it would at the very least cripple it or cause it to be taken out of the sky by the blast force affecting its trajectory. The combination of electronic countermeasures, regular countermeasures, high maneuverability and a low radar cross section aid it's survivability.
Draw, Eurofighter Typhoon 3, Imperium 1
See where this is going, the Imperial fighters are a blunt force relying on heavy cannons and thick armour and pure brute speed. Where as the Eurofighter (and most of the current "earth" figthers) is a weapon of finesse, it's more versatile in roles than the Imperial fighters in atmosphere, its much more maneuverable, it has better in flight systems and countermeasures against attacks. It even has better optics for night flying and smarter targeting arrays.
Our planes are a combination of technology that we understand and constantly improve, valueing speed, maneuverability, onboard technology and weapon versatility over heavy armour and big guns.
Also, if a fighters main weapons are cannons and some hellstrike missiles, How can it be said that they are better than using nukes in a space combat?
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Proble, begins when all our air bases are destroyed from orbit, they would establish air superiority that way, destroy all airfields and satelite from orbit, then send in their own aircraft, which would now be largely unopposed
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After much reading, I have come up with a singular way to prevent the first stages of the "assualt on earth" or at least cripple the first wave Invaders.
It has previously been established that Imperial technology is succeptable to Radiation caused interference (comm systems crashing etc.), a singular missile gets sent up into our orbit (with the assumption that we already have this capability) and gets destroyed by the point-deffense-systems of the imperial navy, now we would know the ffective range of point deffense, after that a nuke would be launched at the ships but detonate before the range of the point deffense systems (eliminating any CAP in the blast radius and causing mass interference in comm systems and scanning systems). In the wake of a first detonation several nukes would be sent up to take advantage of this momentary lapse in the deffense of the orbitting ships, causing massive damage if not destroying many of them. This would most probably result in virus bombing or exterminatus by any other fleet sent in to deal with us however.
In reference to the problem that you stated about the Imperial fleet destroying airfields from orbit, They would have no knowledge of where they are, they are attacking an Earth that they either A) have only just found or B) is the orginal earth that they have no records on due to the massive time difference.
We have currently got the advantage of having vast detailled information on orbital capabilities, deployment plans and unit capabilities. We know their streangths and weaknesses, they would know only that we are human.
It has previously been established that Imperial technology is succeptable to Radiation caused interference (comm systems crashing etc.), a singular missile gets sent up into our orbit (with the assumption that we already have this capability) and gets destroyed by the point-deffense-systems of the imperial navy, now we would know the ffective range of point deffense, after that a nuke would be launched at the ships but detonate before the range of the point deffense systems (eliminating any CAP in the blast radius and causing mass interference in comm systems and scanning systems). In the wake of a first detonation several nukes would be sent up to take advantage of this momentary lapse in the deffense of the orbitting ships, causing massive damage if not destroying many of them. This would most probably result in virus bombing or exterminatus by any other fleet sent in to deal with us however.
In reference to the problem that you stated about the Imperial fleet destroying airfields from orbit, They would have no knowledge of where they are, they are attacking an Earth that they either A) have only just found or B) is the orginal earth that they have no records on due to the massive time difference.
We have currently got the advantage of having vast detailled information on orbital capabilities, deployment plans and unit capabilities. We know their streangths and weaknesses, they would know only that we are human.
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We are assuming we are getting invaded by a 'regular' guard army, of which no such thing exists, we have infromation yes, but in the vast scope and variation of the guard, chances are we aren't going to know that much. And thats assuming that nuke plan even works, the range of their defence grid is probably more than adaquate to not be even phased by a nuke detonating before its range. The fact that only the picket ships would be that close, and on the outstandinly small chance they do get taken out, the other ships would then pound us into oblivion.
I'm fairly certain they could find the airfields easily enough, they do have massively advanced scanning systems and it wouldn't take them long to work out where the airfields are before destroying them and even if they did not initially, they would soon find out once deployed.
Again we think we know a great deal about their capablilites, but in truth we know fuck all in the grand scheme of things. The Imperium is simply too vast to really comprehend, and the massive variation of what could be thrown at us is beyond imagining.
No matter how much you try and sugarcoat this, we can't win, its join them or die, we won't get any initial win followed up by another fleet to vaporise us, we would be soundly defeated by the first wave.
I'm fairly certain they could find the airfields easily enough, they do have massively advanced scanning systems and it wouldn't take them long to work out where the airfields are before destroying them and even if they did not initially, they would soon find out once deployed.
Again we think we know a great deal about their capablilites, but in truth we know fuck all in the grand scheme of things. The Imperium is simply too vast to really comprehend, and the massive variation of what could be thrown at us is beyond imagining.
No matter how much you try and sugarcoat this, we can't win, its join them or die, we won't get any initial win followed up by another fleet to vaporise us, we would be soundly defeated by the first wave.
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392 Posts
Im not trying to suger coat it, more like coat it in salt to cover the taste of shit (cos lets face it, getting pretty much wiped out, would be shit). We would get a proper battering, but it wouldn't be the completely one sided thing that you guys keep saying about.
Besides, we need to be focusing on the Gregory House deffense......
Besides, we need to be focusing on the Gregory House deffense......
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