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I have been rethinking my CSM and wanted to give the Dual Lash a try. SO, I searched for others lists they have created and changed some around to fit my style. A couple of questions though.
What are the recommended troops? I have marines/plague/beazerkers.
Should the squads of oblits be in groups of 2 or 3 each?

Are summoned Daemons worth using? I've wanted to give it a try, but never got around to it. On top of that, are they useful in Dual Lash Lists?
 

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The greater Daemon can come in handy since he's not very costly and essentially catches a free ride on one of your sacrificed champions. Works good when the squad is just about done and the Daemon comes out with his full set of wounds. But that's really the only daemon I would suggest taking... ever.
 

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Plague Marines are your go-to Troops pick. 5-7 in Rhinos with 2 meltas and a PF work fine.

More Oblits is always better.

Daemons are a good tarpit and cheap objective holder, but don't expect much more.

Lash is overrated, T5 DPs are very vulnerable and mech ignores Lash altogether. 2 Warp Timing Nurgle DPs would do you better.
 

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...Did someone really just say the ability to move none vehicle units 2D6 inches then force a pinning test is overrated? My god it is bar none the most tactically useful psychic power in the entire game at the moment, Even vs Mech all their transport won't survive past turn 2 unless their using landraider. Also you seem to have completely ignored the fact that cowards can fit a lash on a cheap sorc hiding in rhino's. Hell if you have flying units you can get a average charge distance of 24 inches. My god I am so tempted to dock you rep for saying lash is overrated (Honestly there is a reason so many people hate lash lists and it has nothing to do with the name.), and for completely ignoring the whole point of the thread which is what units should be taken with a lash list.

Alright having vented that bit of frustration. I would actually suggest taking berzerkers since lash will drastically increase your chances of getting a massed charge off. Also either oblitorators or any ordinance using vehicle complement lash lists very well since you can deny the enemy cover save. (Seeing a 10 man tactical marine unit disappear in one shot is very troubling indeed). Still take at least one unit of plague marines to grab objective.
 

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Plague Marines are your go-to Troops pick. 5-7 in Rhinos with 2 meltas and a PF work fine.

More Oblits is always better.

Daemons are a good tarpit and cheap objective holder, but don't expect much more.

Lash is overrated, T5 DPs are very vulnerable and mech ignores Lash altogether. 2 Warp Timing Nurgle DPs would do you better.
Agreed. Add in psychic defenses and phaw!

@LukeValantine; yes we did ^^. First off, CSM cannot pop a 10+ tank armada. Hell IG/Tau have trouble with popping all tanks on the battlefield and CSM certainly don't have a chance. Lash then relies on transport popping ability and main ability (moving your opponent's troops) is generally sacrificed to clump up units for PC fire which means you're losing more anti-tank fire. Against good foot lists this helps but they take psychic defense and generally have some sort of cover they take with them (i.e. Shield of Sanguine, 3+ turbo, etc.) and are mobile enough to ignore the movement denial of Lash. It is indeed better in a sorc but still suffers from psychic defenses. Lash isn't overpowered and makes people feel CSM are really competitive when they are not. Every army has their own little form of lash in tank shock (well most armies) which doesn't cry at psychic defenses.

He also didn't ignore the point of the thread, he pointed out he should take Plagues (because T5, FNP, double melta in a Rhino is...well good), more oblits (also good) and Warptime DPs being better than Lash DPs.
 

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I agree with Chumbalaya and Kirby here. Lash is good but is nowhere near as good as it's made out to be. The current mainstay of gaming nowadays seems to be mechanised forces so lash is seriously weakened against them. Hell I go hybrid lists, footsloggers and transports, and I have no trouble with lash, even with infantry models out on the field.

but to the OP. good troops for a lash list would be plaguemarines I would say. have around 4 if you can, 2 with fist and 2 melta, 2 with fist and 2 flamers all in rhinos. The flamers used in lash can hit every single model in the lashed squad so they're good that way.

Greater daemon is also the only good daemon from CSM I find too. have one of those units with a naked champ and call the greater daemon through him, lose nothing serious but gain a hell of a lot.
 

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If you are semi mech and have little trouble with lash, then you haven't seen anyone that actually knows how to use it.

Lash is unbelievable. No, I cannot pop all 10 tanks at once, but i can get 3 - 5 a turn. That is plent for me. I only need 2 opened a turn to keep my engine running.

I am a long time nurgle player, and I love my warp time winged nurgle princes, but they are not the equal of lash princes ( or lash sorcerers with wings in rhinos.)

Lash is not overrated, it is just that a lot of guys that do not understand the subtle nuances of the mechanic have tried it and failed, so it must not be that good. Well folks, it is that good, and then some.
 

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Nah, bad players and newbies just run screaming from it. T5 Princes FTL.

It's more a limitation of the Chaos Codex than anything. They just don't have the capacity to deal with lots of mech at range. Oblits are your best bet and even then they can only possibly knock out 3 targets per turn. If you're not using Oblits or using them on the Lash trick (cluster up then plasma) then mech just rolls you.

Fun gimmick, good against bad players and armies, but still a gimmick.
 

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snip

Lash is unbelievable. No, I cannot pop all 10 tanks at once, but i can get 3 - 5 a turn. That is plent for me. I only need 2 opened a turn to keep my engine running.

snip
Really, what? 3-5 tanks a turn? come on. No army can reliably pop 3-5 tanks a turn. Armies have the capacity to, but not reliably unless you fall over to alpha strikes all the time thanks to no defenses. If an army could reliably kill 3-5 tanks a turn (especially from the get go) then why do most games see tanks roaming around at the end of the game? People aren't running 18-30 tanks I'm afraid. Hell even Tau w/10 crisis and 9 Broadsides would be just clipping the reliability of 3-5 tanks a turn and then they'd suffer big time in anti-infantry even with 10 fireknives.

As Chumby said, you want to blast my guys hoping out of transports with lash and PCs...oh right they already are clumped from getting out of transports and those guys w/PCs? Are your anti-tank. Other armies do this all the time without lash *looks at IG/Tau/Eldar* and those armies have a lot more anti-tank fire who also don't rely on their anti-tank firepower for blasts *looks at oblits.* Lash is an okay spell in a book which doesn't have a lot of premium choices *looks at FA*. Trying to pull out the you must be playing players who fail is just a cop out, counter the points raised so we can counter-point all day long for internet raging <3.
 

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I've taken on tournament players using lash and still had very little trouble with it. by the time I'm in lash range I have the brunt of my force in range of the lasher and that thing is going down before his turn through a god awful amount of assault cannon fire, rifleman dreads, lascannons whatever. lash mean's absolutely nothing if the unit that can be lashed can't be seen. I have a combat squad with 2 meltaguns and a fist(using the combat squad rule, hence the 2 guns) hide behind a razorback and get to the prince in fair time, assault him and bam, gone by turn 2 as he will have wings and is coming towards me too.

People who say it's the best power in the game has played people who don't know how to handle it. not poeple who can handle it are playing people who don't know how to use it.

Also I'm not sure about being troops but chosen in a rhino would be a good option for a lash friendly unit. 4 flamers on them and you have a very good unit to take out clustered lash units.
 

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I believe it was pointed out, though it was very subtle, that one can do the same things you guys are saying you are doing with Lash with normal Tank Shocks?

That's why Lash isn't such a great power - A general with tactical acumen can do the exact same thing that power allows you to do with a simple Rhino or 2.
 

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Well lets see:

You have a unit thats spread the heck out against you, like a conga line holding two objectives?

You got a few rhinos, the first one you "Tank Shock" and end your movement in the middle of the conga line, and now the conga line shrinks over to one side, bunching up as they have to keep in coherency around the wide berth the vehicle presents and this bunches them up a bit. (And if the conga line was JUST within both objective capture zones, you've likely torn the enemy off the objectives. Fancy that.)

Add two more tank shocks to "push" the enemy more in the direction you wanna clump them (force coherency) and it adds up to a big clump.

Ta-da! Free Lash!

So hard to imagine? Imagine this with 8/9 Grav Tanks from Eldar, and you're in big business, lol.
 

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Well lets see:

You have a unit thats spread the heck out against you, like a conga line holding two objectives?

You got a few rhinos, the first one you "Tank Shock" and end your movement in the middle of the conga line, and now the conga line shrinks over to one side, bunching up as they have to keep in coherency around the wide berth the vehicle presents and this bunches them up a bit. (And if the conga line was JUST within both objective capture zones, you've likely torn the enemy off the objectives. Fancy that.)

Add two more tank shocks to "push" the enemy more in the direction you wanna clump them (force coherency) and it adds up to a big clump.

Ta-da! Free Lash!

So hard to imagine? Imagine this with 8/9 Grav Tanks from Eldar, and you're in big business, lol.
Thats all well and good, but say the unit you tank shock passes its leadership test (which is likely) and decides to make a death or glory attack, which hits automatically regardless if it's a shooting or CC attack. So yes you can try it this way, just make certain there are no meltaguns, lascannons, powerfists etc. in that unit or else you risk losing a vehicle (not so bad if they are only rhinos, but can be a problem for anything better). It is a good tactic, especially if you dont play CSM, but is very situational, far harder and more expensive to pull off than LoS. So as an alternative to LoS it really doesnt compare.
 

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The melta only gets to DoG if you drive over it, so just don't. The odds of something silly like a krak grenade stopping you are about as good as failing Ld10 psychic tests.

What makes tank shocking superior is that you don't have to waste an HQ slot on a T5 3 wound MC in order to do it, it's just a natural advantage of having a mech army, which is good enough on its own.
 

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still that's only one wound more than what was said and a 5+ isn't going to do much as the majority of MC firepower chews through 3+ armour. last prince I played against, up against 2 of them, one was shot down by a rifleman dread in the second turn(120pts, much cheaper than the prince) the other was taken out by a 10 man assault squad with 2 meltaguns and a thunder hammer. I lost 3 guys from that unit and they went on to take out 2 more units in that game. Overall they were destroyed without moving a single unit of mine. They are not that strong and they are no longer that useful....
 
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