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Discussion Starter #1
So I am having a problem understanding why Wraithlords,Wraithknights,Riptides,Dreadknights other suits and big armored robots are Monstrous Creatures but a Dreadnought is a Walker?

I cant see why it takes 3 times as long to down a Wraithlord who in my opinion is an Eldar counterpart to a Dread, but a Dread can be downed by a single las canon or anything with str 6 and above or str 4 from the back.
Since there is no concrete system to determine what is an MC and what is a Walker ( anything remotely mechanical is a Walker, everything else MC imho)

Have anyone tried to run em as Monstrous Creatures?
Current stats for a Dread are
WS/BS 5, 12,12,10, I4, A2

While Wraithlords have T8 so small arms fire is completely useless.

This would be my conversion of a Dread into MC

Standard Dreadnought 125 Pts
WS4 BS4 S6 T8 W4 I4 A2 Sv 3+/5++

Ironclad Dreadnought 135 Pts
WS4 BS4 S6 T8 W5 I4 A2(3) 3+/5++

Venerable Dreadnought 165 Pts
WS5 BS5 S6 T8 W4 I4 A3 3+/5++ FnP

Thoughts? Ideas?
 

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because thats the way the rule have been written...you could ask the same about dev cents why did they not get made bigger so they would be MC's? either way it really doesn't matter dreads work fine as they are...and there's nothing we can do to change it
 

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this is not the first spot that I have seen the idea being promoted to change almost all of the current walkers to be turned into MCs.

It has popped up enough to at least have a group of us to discuss at the FLGS.
 

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Yeah, the differentiation is entirely arbitrary. My belief is that "wraithlords" i.e. Eldar dreadnoughts only switched from having armor value to change how they played when there were fewer other rules to make them different.

In second edition they were called Eldar dreadnoughts and had an AV the same as all other dreads.
 

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For the same reason that Sentinels and War Walkers are Walkers; they're basically manned, piloted vehicles. They're not that large to be considered monstrous, and they have all of the physical qualities of large metal vehicles on legs. Eldar wraith constructs are more like they are alive than a vehicle, because they are an integrated soul manning a skin of wraithbone, and tau battlesuits have never been vehicles, so the Riptide is just following along.
 

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One could make a counter argument about the chaos helbrute, which is now very organic/daemonic.
 

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I find it kind of interesting that these suggested stats give dreadnoughts a worst save than terminators, which were, in part, designed from dreadnoughts.
 

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I'm just going to post my thoughts that were a part of a facebook conversation

my thoughts: Dreadnoughts: or other generic 12, 12, 10 vehicles WS4 BS4 S6 T8 W4 I4 A3 Ld 10 Save 2+

Defilers/Demonic Engines WS3 BS3 S7 T7 W4 I3 A3 Ld 10 Save 3+, Demon, It Will Not Die

Sentinels: other 10, 10, 10 vehicles WS3 BS3 S6 T6 (or T5 if open topped) W3 I3 A2 Ld 10 save 4+

----

the WS, BS, I and A values would remain the same for each race (so Eldar would be WS/BS4 and I6 or whatever they are)
Edit: I have found that in general something that is T6 is the equivalent to being AV10 and kinda works itself out pretty well going up from their.

Walkers that are AV13/14 though are a little bit harder to work out IMO.
 

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For the same reason that Sentinels and War Walkers are Walkers; they're basically manned, piloted vehicles. They're not that large to be considered monstrous, and they have all of the physical qualities of large metal vehicles on legs. Eldar wraith constructs are more like they are alive than a vehicle, because they are an integrated soul manning a skin of wraithbone, and tau battlesuits have never been vehicles, so the Riptide is just following along.
By this logic i would consider the dreadnought to be an MC, and the dreadknight to be a walker.

Personally i'm fine with dreads as they are. MC's are a bitch to take out, but there are occasions when they can die to stupid shit, where an ironclad would shrug it off.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So after some testing I found it to be better to have it like this.
13/13/12
5+ Inv save.
With 3 Attacks.
 
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