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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So this list was the evolution of my 'silver armored shooting' one that was posted earlier. I'd like to say it drops the Knight to get more boots on the ground, but honestly, it doesn't, much. Instead, I went another way with it, and focused on a) models I love the look of on the table, and b) a force of battle psykers. I'm rather proud of how it turned out, even though I know there's a little bloat. But only a little, so not sure how to fine tune.


Nemesis Strike Force Detachment

Librarian - 145
Lv 3, Storm Bolter, Hammer

Librarian - 145
Lv 3, Storm Bolter, Hammer

Terminator Squad - 206
4+1, x3 Halberd, Hammer, WardStave, Psycannon

Terminator Squad - 206
4+1, x3 Halberd, Hammer, WardStave, Psycannon

Terminator Squad - 206
4+1, x3 Halberd, Hammer, WardStave, Psycannon

Nemesis Dreadknight - 205
PT, Greatsword, Heavy Psycannon

Nemesis Dreadknight - 205
PT, Greatsword, Heavy Psycannon

Kaldor Draigo

Fortification Detachment

Aegis Defense Line w/ Comms - 70

Inquisitorial Detachment

OM Inquisitor - 65
Carapace Armor, BP/Force Sword, ML1, x3 Servo Skulls

Officio Assasinorum Detachment

Vindicaire Assassin

Officio Assasinorum Detachment

Vindicaire Assassin

Army total: 1997

So that's it. Draigo takes one squad, a Libby in each of the others. I'm thinking Telepathy for both; the powers aren't bad, 50/50 shot at Invisibility, plus Psychic Shriek before opening up with bolters and rending cannons. Inquisitor 'Taximus' hides behind the ADL to bring my Greys in first turn on a 2+. Vindies hide and shoot stuff up. Dreadknights start on the table shunting forward. Went for psycannons with those great heavy 6 shots... and for the look on the model I intend to use. Not exactly a fan of wasting points on a mastery Level for the Inquisitor, but had nowhere else to spend it... it bothered me to run ONE sword-wielding terminator.

I think the final count is 14WC dice per phase, plus my d6.
 

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Rattlehead
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1. Good heavens that's an absolute shit-tonne of points in characters. Draigo and 2 Librarians is fairly heinously expensive and I'm not entirely convinced of the returns you get (this is Draigo's big problem apart from being an only-punches guy who costs more than a Land Raider - he doesn't fill the HQ slot so you miss out on vital support elements). Librarians are also kinda inefficient for warp charge creation - having one around is good since you don't have a Brother-Captain for Divination, but if creating Warp Charge to fuel your Hammerhands/Sanctuary (huhely important to the well-being of your Dreadknights), you'd be far better off mitigating your uber-low body count and getting some backfield scorers (you're unlikely to have any Objectives behind the Aegis Line with 7th ed placement so the Vindicares are out) and pick up a trio of Acolyte/Acolyte/Psyker henchman squads. 54pts, so a substantial cut down from the Librarians, amd while they're hardly troublesome they do at least force the enemy to have a plan beyond 'kill 15 Termimators, win game'.

2. You know my views on Halberds, and that's cool, but Warding Staves? Can't say I'd unserstans why you'd go from Str7 to str8 at the cost of AP3, and pay points for it. Adamantium Will is pointless when your whole army has Psychic Hood coverage at ML3 - with +14 WC and a 4+ DtW with the Aegis, do you really need to spend points on making that a 3+? Also frees up points for glorious Falchions :p

3. I'm still not sure on them yet but I'm not totally convinced on the need for Personal Teleporters in a Nemesis Strike Force, especially with Servo Skulls and a Comms Relay. It's nice, sure, for rerolling charge distance if nothing else but 30pts? I dunno - await field testing.

4. Can Inquisitors use Communion? I was sure that they had to take rulebook powers now but I can't cite any sources for that. Awesome if so, probably removing the need for a Comms Relay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
1. Good heavens that's an absolute shit-tonne of points in characters. Draigo and 2 Librarians is fairly heinously expensive and I'm not entirely convinced of the returns you get (this is Draigo's big problem apart from being an only-punches guy who costs more than a Land Raider - he doesn't fill the HQ slot so you miss out on vital support elements). Librarians are also kinda inefficient for warp charge creation - having one around is good since you don't have a Brother-Captain for Divination, but if creating Warp Charge to fuel your Hammerhands/Sanctuary (huhely important to the well-being of your Dreadknights), you'd be far better off mitigating your uber-low body count and getting some backfield scorers (you're unlikely to have any Objectives behind the Aegis Line with 7th ed placement so the Vindicares are out) and pick up a trio of Acolyte/Acolyte/Psyker henchman squads. 54pts, so a substantial cut down from the Librarians, amd while they're hardly troublesome they do at least force the enemy to have a plan beyond 'kill 15 Termimators, win game'.
Part of the issue has to do with my own anal retendencies (it's a term!); I like symmetry and things feeling justified. If Draigo is on the field, he SHOULD be in charge. I can make him my warlord, sure, but when I look at him and one Librarian, it feels off. Who's this one guy hanging out that's just as important as my Lord of War? So I add a second for symmetry. Obviously it means no Librum for them both, but.. yeah. I figure between the two I can take Telepathy for chances at Invisibility for them both, Psychic Shriek to soften up a character before an assault, throw out a few other modifiers... or just feed all the Hammerhands, Force effects, Sanctuaries, etc etc. I never really considered running the Henchmen squads as WC batteries, even the Libbys as batteries. That was just a nice side effect!

2. You know my views on Halberds, and that's cool, but Warding Staves? Can't say I'd unserstans why you'd go from Str7 to str8 at the cost of AP3, and pay points for it. Adamantium Will is pointless when your whole army has Psychic Hood coverage at ML3 - with +14 WC and a 4+ DtW with the Aegis, do you really need to spend points on making that a 3+? Also frees up points for glorious Falchions :p
I have to reread rules on DTW... I don't remember Psychic Hoods affecting anything. In fact, as I look, I can't find Psychic Hoods really showing up anywhere anymore. Have I lost my mind?

On the other hand, I do understand your view on Falchions. I like them, but I also like Halberds. I was considering Falchions for the Justicars and Halberds in other places... maybe I'll drop the ward staves and go that way. If there is something with the Hoods... should I keep the WS on the squad with Draigo and no Libby? Of course, the difference between a Stave on one guy is ONE point from a Falchion on the same guy, so....

3. I'm still not sure on them yet but I'm not totally convinced on the need for Personal Teleporters in a Nemesis Strike Force, especially with Servo Skulls and a Comms Relay. It's nice, sure, for rerolling charge distance if nothing else but 30pts? I dunno - await field testing.
I hadn't really been considering Striking the NDK with the detachment. He had been one of my units on the field, just in case reserve rolls went poorly, or I went second. Without them, I was sitting with 2 Vindicaires and Taximus as keeping me from being tabled. If I could guarantee going first, I probably wouldn't bother.

4. Can Inquisitors use Communion? I was sure that they had to take rulebook powers now but I can't cite any sources for that. Awesome if so, probably removing the need for a Comms Relay.
You're absolutely right! Just checked the Inquisition mini-dex, and an Inquisitor starts with Hammerhand or Communion, and gives it up for a roll on Div, Pyro or TK. I'll drop the ADL/Relay, which I didn't really want.




Soooo.... right now I have 75 points to play with by dropping the Comms, the ADL, and turning the 3 ward staves into 3 falchions on my Justicars. Thoughts? I could throw in 2 more Terminators, but remember the symmetry... I'd want 3. :p
 

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Rattlehead
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No snowmobiling, I'm afraid, I'm on my phone so I'll just address the general points:

1. Yeah, the Lord of War characters actually have pretty huge issues because they don't use the HQ slot and none moreso than GK - if I was bringing Draigo I'd have to bring a barebones something to salve my conscience.

2. Psychic Hoods are a 12" bubble allowing units within it to use that models's Mastery when Denying - so a Librarian covers quite a lot of ground with what is likely to be +2 to Deny.

If you're actually using them for the psychic powers they bring, I have major doubts that they support the army any more -Halberds will mitigate it a little, but I think you're in very real danger of folding in combat with your Hammerhand/Force dice being sucked up by the Librarians. 2+ to wound is actually a pretty major improvement over 3+, particularly with the qiality-over-quantity GK style, and Sanctuary is a pretty huge thing for Dreadknights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Snowmobiling?

So you're saying just not bother with the Libbys? Maybe use some BroCapts or even GMs instead, and just use their combat support, instead of using their psychic powers for buffs? They'd get me more psychic dice, withou needing the powers, really. And I could add more heavy weaponry.

My originaly idea for an army actually didn't bother with so many characters... but I did have a Knight in there for S&Gs. maybe I'll go back that way. :)
 

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Rattlehead
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Going through quote-by-quote :)

I think cutting down to just one Librarian would be fine - Divination's a really nice buff and he's still a WS5 Daemonhammer, which is solid, as well as his Psychic Hood - leaving you with enough psychic support through Draigo (Purge Soul is crap, but you can pull some nice moves with Gate of Infinity) and a Librarian that you can usually push through the powers you want (GK need their Str6 to pull their weight in combat, but if you have all your Termimators engaged in combat at the same time then you're probably in a very good place already so Hammerhand is less a necessity). It also frees up a whole bunch of points. You could run a Captain or Master instead of the Librarian, but for the decreased mastery/increased points and loss of psychic hood, the extra damage output when you're already a squad of GKT (with Hammerhand against anything other than Grots, and rerolling from Prescience and with Force against anything that absolutely must die) doesn't seem worth it.

I don't know what I'd spend the points on, exactly, but unless your local gaming scene only ever plays 2k there's no reason not to cut the Librarian and simply play 1850pts :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Going through quote-by-quote :)

I think cutting down to just one Librarian would be fine - Divination's a really nice buff and he's still a WS5 Daemonhammer, which is solid, as well as his Psychic Hood - leaving you with enough psychic support through Draigo (Purge Soul is crap, but you can pull some nice moves with Gate of Infinity) and a Librarian that you can usually push through the powers you want (GK need their Str6 to pull their weight in combat, but if you have all your Termimators engaged in combat at the same time then you're probably in a very good place already so Hammerhand is less a necessity). It also frees up a whole bunch of points. You could run a Captain or Master instead of the Librarian, but for the decreased mastery/increased points and loss of psychic hood, the extra damage output when you're already a squad of GKT (with Hammerhand against anything other than Grots, and rerolling from Prescience and with Force against anything that absolutely must die) doesn't seem worth it.

I don't know what I'd spend the points on, exactly, but unless your local gaming scene only ever plays 2k there's no reason not to cut the Librarian and simply play 1850pts :)

So really then, what we're saying is that in general, GKs are stronger just using a lot of dice to fuel their inborn powers, such as HH on everything and Sanctuary on my NDKs, etc. I may drop back down to a single Librarian, and drop Draigo (which makes this thread moot)... probably a combination of ideas from this list and the other list I have on here, putting back some of the ranged support. Dropping the Aegis and using the Communion Inquisitor gives me points to play with.
 

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Rattlehead
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Eh, psychic support is fine but it doesn't work for every list - if you have 10 Paladins and Draigo to tank Str8+ on them, then running Librarians just to shoot for Invisibility and/or Sanctuary is fine because you have a really well-synchronised combo of using psychic powers to support your army. I'll just emphasize that last bit - psychic powers support the army. A couple of Presciences, a well-placed Misfortune, a Cleansing Flame at just the right moment to catch a bunch of dudes; they all add a lot to a list, and a list with that support is often better than one without (a microcosm is found in the Riptide - it's a very competitively priced, powerful unit when it can fire on something with at least 2 and preferably a couple of spare Markerlights. Without Markerlights, it's a pretty expensive way to get some okay firepower into an army packed with good firepower). However, and this is the trap I think your list falls into, you can just as easily have too much support and not enough actual army to support it with. 2 Librarians plus Draigo plus at least 3 miscellaneous powers (Sanctuary on the DKs and one Hammerhand because you should manage to have one squad in combat at least) is an awful lot of support and I think that you have far too many points supporting 1000pts of actual army (GKT and DKs).

Hold the phone on the Comms Relay - Nemesis Strike Detachment rolls reserves before the first Psychic Phase, so you can't actually have Communion up and running until turn 2 earliest. I knew there was a reason, I just couldn't put my finger on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hold the phone on the Comms Relay - Nemesis Strike Detachment rolls reserves before the first Psychic Phase, so you can't actually have Communion up and running until turn 2 earliest. I knew there was a reason, I just couldn't put my finger on it.
Are you sure? Rites of Teleportation state you can make your Reserve Roll on turn one, and will arrive from Deep Strike Reserve. Psychic Communion states it's a blessing that's cast in the movement phase before Reserve Rolls are made. Neither of those seems to contradict the other; the Rites don't change the time they appear. Do they?
 

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Rattlehead
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Well, you can try casting it on T1 movement phase but given you don't have any warp charge until the psychic phase, I'd be interested to see how that works out for you... :victory:
 

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Hey guys, sorry to chime in here.

I bought the Inquisition minidex as I thought my friend was just trying to pull a fast one on me with some of the rules. Fun little read and got a couple of ideas for the future.

Anyway, back on topic, my version says that Inquisitors must take their powers from Daemonology (Sanctic), divination, pyromancy, telekinesis and telepathy. There is no mention of communion anywhere.

Just wondered if your copy of the dex is the most up to date? I was told all codex powers are now gone, which seems to be the case for this dex on my side. By the sound of the rule saying that it is cast in the movement phase, I reckon your copy must be out of date.
 

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Rattlehead
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Hey guys, sorry to chime in here.

I bought the Inquisition minidex as I thought my friend was just trying to pull a fast one on me with some of the rules. Fun little read and got a couple of ideas for the future.

Anyway, back on topic, my version says that Inquisitors must take their powers from Daemonology (Sanctic), divination, pyromancy, telekinesis and telepathy. There is no mention of communion anywhere.

Just wondered if your copy of the dex is the most up to date? I was told all codex powers are now gone, which seems to be the case for this dex on my side. By the sound of the rule saying that it is cast in the movement phase, I reckon your copy must be out of date.
Thanks for the update!

I figured it'd be unlikely that Inquisitors still had Communion since, well, it just doesn't work in 7th.
 
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