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Your Opinion-is chaos shat on by GW?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 23.9%
  • No

    Votes: 33 49.3%
  • Give me back my 3rd Edition!

    Votes: 18 26.9%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Personally I've seen loads of shit while comparing the standard SM codex to my csm codex.

1) the lack of 'modern' tanks availiableto csm where SM have tons and their tanks get loads more special rules like their vindi can fire as a barrage.

2) the csm fluff sucks in that: "I'm a Daemon Primarch. I'm many more times powerfull than a normal primarch. If we all got off our fat arses then we could beat the Imperium hands-down. Hmmm... maybe tommorow".I smell bull shit!:ireful2:

3) lack of 'advanced' tech like assault cannons and whirlwinds and thunderfire cannons and artificer armour and any form of psychic defence and attack bikes and land speeders and land raider crusaders and land raider redeemer...

4) oh and storm shields and drop pods and snipers and razorbacks and servitors and techpriests and storm bolters and hunter-killer missiles and flying dreadnoughts and even sane dreadnoughts...

5) and also GWs shitty exusses like

"but technology has moved on since the horus heresy"

but marines are always going renegade and taking their technology with them:
"sir we've forgotten the drop pods!"
"Ah well, leave them"
"But why sir!? they give us a distinct advantage!"
"I don't know... it just feels right..."
bullshit:ireful2:.
_______________________________________________________________

But what really rattles my cage is that in the book 'a thousand sons' the terminators are described as having storm bolters and assault cannons. I blaim Graham McNeil for this! This is because in the book he says that they call it the 'reaper' because they find it a fitting name. Then some twat-faced codex writer (a.k.a. Gav Thorpe) saw it and thinks 'that'll make a good gun!' completely over looking that it already exists and has rules but he decides to write his own version just to bullshit chaos players:ireful2:.

However, chaos should not get these things! We are too much like loyalists anyway and we don't want to become "Codex:Renegades" as we lost a lot of what defines us as chaos when the latest dex came out.

What I'm getting at is that we should at least have some chaotic equivilents.

For example wouldn't Iron Warrior players love some form of artillery *cough* *whirlwinds* *cough*

Wouldn't Steel Brethren players love drop pods:
notes: extensive use of transports and drop pods
That's from the csm codex.

Wouldn't Alpha Legion love cultists?

Wouldn't World Eaters, that's the blood thirsty ones that are blessed by the god of cc, love to be as good at it as some space puppies. And please GW... give them back their collars and axes.

And our codex is barely original:
Unique HQ choices=1-Daemon Princes
Unique Elites choices=1-Possessed
Unique Fast Attack choices=1-Spawn
Unique Heavy Support choices=2:shok:-Obliterators and Defilers

The only place where we are really unique is the Troops section and that's only because of the cult troops (who all have their SM equivilent anyway) and summoned daemons.

At the moment we are just SMs with a few MCs thrown in for shits and giggles.

FUCK YOU GAMES WORKSHOP!:angry::ireful2:

(Angry rant over and thanks to the people who read the lot, I'm really pissed off):headbutt::hang1:
 

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Woot! for the angry rant. Where would we be without them :laugh:

I'm not sure they are 'shitting' on Chaos as much as either:
1. Leaving them too long for a complete overhaul hence getting a bit dusty
Or
2. Relying too much on the 'Technology has moved on' line, simply because they can't be arsed to do the above.

I must agree, when i started to play 40k, i was somewhat suprised at the lack of things like Drop pods and Whirlwinds in the ranks of Chaos.

SGMAlice
 

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look a new chaos codex will probably come out in 5 years and then you can complain how bad that one is, sound fair?
 

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you're angry that you are too much like the normal SM but you're saying that you should get Drop Pods, Whirlwinds, Variant Land Raiders, and Thunderfire Cannons?

you sir are trying to have your cake and eat it too which won't happen
 

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I'll be honest I find alot of these sorts of threads tiresome, but this one pops up a fair bits so here I go on a counter rant

Chaos have drop pods, their called dreadclaws, and there availible from forge world. When the chaos dex was released, vanilla SM didn't have drop pods, other than FW ones, and the loyalist model is far simpler and so was far easier to turn into a plastic kit.

Storm shields have only been popular since the new lloyalist dex came out, before assault termis were rare in the extreme, so moaning for these is like saying their good i want them as well, fluff wise only iron warriors would have them anyway, chaos are not massive on the whole self preservation, and none of the other legions really like that sort of stuff, plus IWs wouldn't want whirlwhinds their not heavy enough, they usee large calibre weapons to punch through massive fortication, whirlwings are far more field weapons

Same with the redeemer, and the thunderfire, new models that came out AFTER the chaos dex

By flying dreadnoughts I take you mean in a storm Raven, erm new codex by any chance?

Scouts are no longer used by traitors, its a fluff reason, the closest they use are cultists this is one place i agree, they should have cultists as a cheap troop unit

Remember a thousand sons was writen 5 yrs after the chaos dex, so don't moan that the dex isn't the same! The storm bolter is effectivly a combi bolter, its reasonable that imperium has improved its design in 10,000 years

Your rant really reads like you just want to have all the cool stuff from all the different marine lists, If you want to do that do that with a vanila marine list and just say their really traitors. The chaos dex should not just be a copy of the marine dex with new units, there needs to be things that make each unique, including making them play differently
 

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I'll be honest I find alot of these sorts of threads tiresome, but this one pops up a fair bits so here I go on a counter rant

Chaos have drop pods, their called dreadclaws, and there availible from forge world. When the chaos dex was released, vanilla SM didn't have drop pods, other than FW ones, and the loyalist model is far simpler and so was far easier to turn into a plastic kit.

Storm shields have only been popular since the new lloyalist dex came out, before assault termis were rare in the extreme, so moaning for these is like saying their good i want them as well, fluff wise only iron warriors would have them anyway, chaos are not massive on the whole self preservation, and none of the other legions really like that sort of stuff, plus IWs wouldn't want whirlwhinds their not heavy enough, they usee large calibre weapons to punch through massive fortication, whirlwings are far more field weapons

Same with the redeemer, and the thunderfire, new models that came out AFTER the chaos dex

By flying dreadnoughts I take you mean in a storm Raven, erm new codex by any chance?

Scouts are no longer used by traitors, its a fluff reason, the closest they use are cultists this is one place i agree, they should have cultists as a cheap troop unit

Remember a thousand sons was writen 5 yrs after the chaos dex, so don't moan that the dex isn't the same! The storm bolter is effectivly a combi bolter, its reasonable that imperium has improved its design in 10,000 years

Your rant really reads like you just want to have all the cool stuff from all the different marine lists, If you want to do that do that with a vanila marine list and just say their really traitors. The chaos dex should not just be a copy of the marine dex with new units, there needs to be things that make each unique, including making them play differently

So your point is that even though Marine's and Chapter's have gone Chaos in the last 10K years they just "forgot" all their tech? Not to mention that there are Ad-Mech on the Chaos side also that are activly searching for new tech(we dont get to see any of this though).

No the Chaos dex should not be a carbon copy of the marine dex, but by removing all the demons from the chaos dex without adding anything they have done nothing to make people feel they should continue with this army.
 

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They may not have forgotten it when they went renegade, they may have taken their tech with them but they may lack the necessary parts to repair and service the landspeeders etc

Plus the Chaos Space Marine dex gets lots of good stuff too... plague marines? oblits? warptime nurgle DPs? what a chapter goes renegade one day and the next their packing defilers and plague marines?
 

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@Brainfreeze

NO

What I'm saying is don't moan that GW has released newer stuff since the chaos dex was released and not straight away re released the chaos dex just to give traitor versions of the new stuff.

I agree that daemons should not have been nigh on completely purged but that shouldn't make them vanila marines, If your a new player than vanilla are probably the better army simply because they have had the newest update, rember GW doesn't release all the codexes the same day, some are naturally older and not as suited to new players, people who have played chaos for years are not going to say I have no landspeeders I quit, Hey they only just got the vindicator!

If you want a fluffy reason why there no new heavy tech in the legions, they have go in the EoT, the most militerised zone in the galaxy, large transporters simply can't run the blockade
 

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They may not have forgotten it when they went renegade, they may have taken their tech with them but they may lack the necessary parts to repair and service the landspeeders etc

Plus the Chaos Space Marine dex gets lots of good stuff too... plague marines? oblits? warptime nurgle DPs? what a chapter goes renegade one day and the next their packing defilers and plague marines?

You cant use this line without the opposite... "What a chapter goes renegade one day and all their storm bolters/assualt cannons/drop pods/Land Raider variants/etc etc etc.. fall off and stop working?"

Parts and repair are not the problem chapters have tech marines and more often then not it's assumed that they fall with the chapter, also the CSM have taken far more then 1 forge world so parts are not the issue.

I'm not saying CSM dont get any good stuff(oblits), but there is an obivous logic fault when it comes to which loyalist tech they are allowed.
 

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I should point out that there's already a thread along these lines currently running, but I'm going to point out something more important.

To everyone on this forum, myself included, who feels that Chaos Marines got a bit of a raw deal three years ago, how about we start a petition to GW to get started on a new Chaos Marine codex.

Yes, they probably won't listen but and I doubt I'm alone on this, all this moaning and then doing nothing about it is getting really old.
 

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I should point out that there's already a thread along these lines currently running, but I'm going to point out something more important.

To everyone on this forum, myself included, who feels that Chaos Marines got a bit of a raw deal three years ago, how about we start a petition to GW to get started on a new Chaos Marine codex.

Yes, they probably won't listen but and I doubt I'm alone on this, all this moaning and then doing nothing about it is getting really old.
It's in the rumor mill, as I recall, that a new Chaos Marine codex has already been started.
 

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You cant use this line without the opposite... "What a chapter goes renegade one day and all their storm bolters/assualt cannons/drop pods/Land Raider variants/etc etc etc.. fall off and stop working?"
By the same logic a chapter doesn't go renegade & the next day have gifts from the Gods, Deamon Princes and deamonic support.

If you want a newly renegade chapter use the SM codex and deface the imperium symboles. If not ya gotta use the CSM codex, which I will agree sucks compared to the last one.

It still sounds like the "I want my cake & eat it too" arguement. You're saying you want all the cool Chaos stuff & the best stuff from all the SM codexes.
 

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By the same logic a chapter doesn't go renegade & the next day have gifts from the Gods, Deamon Princes and deamonic support.

If you want a newly renegade chapter use the SM codex and deface the imperium symboles. If not ya gotta use the CSM codex, which I will agree sucks compared to the last one.

It still sounds like the "I want my cake & eat it too" arguement. You're saying you want all the cool Chaos stuff & the best stuff from all the SM codexes.
The problem is, as far as the chaos codex is concerned the cake is a lie unless you just want to focus on Oblits and DP.

The CSM legions have less unique about them(rules and options wise) then any of the loyalist legions that get their own codex (Space Wolfs, Blood Angels, Dark Angels).

The codex was stripped of demons because of a money grab, but GW forgot to add things to chaos to make up for losing this.

The point is either give CSM some of the tech, or give them something to make up for the loss of the demons as it is they are not different enough from weakened vanilla SMs to justify the loss of so much variation.
 

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You cant use this line without the opposite... "What a chapter goes renegade one day and all their storm bolters/assualt cannons/drop pods/Land Raider variants/etc etc etc.. fall off and stop working?"
I did use the opposite line, you even quoted it...

They may have taken their tech with them but they may lack the necessary parts to repair and service the landspeeders
Just because they may have captured a forgeworld or two does not mean they have the necessary parts, IG Vanquishers were produced on Tigrus, not on all.

If you want to represent a force that has just turned traitor and still has all its 'normal' gear use the normal codex space marines, if you want to use a force that has been traitor for a while and has forged deamonic pacts etc and their 'normal' equipment may have been written off as beyond repair use codex chaos space marines. There is no 'logic fault' here.

The point is either give CSM some of the tech, or give them something to make up for the loss of the demons as it is they are not different enough from weakened vanilla SMs to justify the loss of so much variation.
Or not. Chaos marines get the better troops choices by far, worse fast attack, better elite and heavy support choices and worse HQ (not everybody can be vulkan). When the codex was re-written you got differences from the codex space marines, cult troops, chosen, icons, cheap units that can deepstrike in (without scatter) and assault in the same turn? What else exactly do you want? Railguns? Basilisks?
 

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This whole argument is pointless. I will not believe a new chaos dex is coming until I know for sure as plenty of used codexes, some of which are popular armies that have been around longer probably deserve an update first. Prime examples include both eldar, tau, black templers, dark angels, necrons and inquisition. Do not forget that fantasy and LotR releases also need to be considered. My belief is that chaos will not get updated until at least 6th ed (assuming a 2012 release for that)
 
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