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g'day guys i saw this happen in a game and was just wondering what your take on it was.

a space marine land raider carrying terminators has driven up to a defense line and dissembarked his terminators on the otherside of it, claiming he can dissembark 6" away from land raider.

i think that in the spirit of the game you should'nt be allowed to, but no one could find a rule anywhere to dispute it.

otherwise if this is legal to do then the defense line is not as good as i first thought, as i could drive a trukk up to it and stick the boyz straight over the fence.

cheers
 

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page 79 of the BRB explains the process of disembarking.

His claim is not 100% true. Each model must start be placed, one at a time, in base contact with an access point of the vehicle. The model can then be moved up to 6", still being subject to difficult/dangerous terrain.

Defense Lines count as battlefield debris, which are considered as difficult terrain. The way I see it, he should have rolled a difficult terrain test to determine how far he could move after disembarking.
 

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But his claim is mostly true, which is the major concern here. He can run his Land Raider up, take a difficult terrain test, and disembark over the wall.

The point of the wall is to provide cover to your troops. A fortification gives you a 3+ cover save, which is pretty nice. Even against assaulting troops it would lower their initiative, assuming they don't have rules bout that. But yes, it does little to hinder moving over them.
 

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He still has to make the difficult terrain check though, and from the OP's post, it sounds like his opponent didn't.

To answer the second part of the OP's statement... The way I see it, Defense Lines aren't there to deter assaults as much as they are to provide cover saves.
 

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page 79 of the BRB explains the process of disembarking.

His claim is not 100% true. Each model must start be placed, one at a time, in base contact with an access point of the vehicle. The model can then be moved up to 6", still being subject to difficult/dangerous terrain.

Defense Lines count as battlefield debris, which are considered as difficult terrain. The way I see it, he should have rolled a difficult terrain test to determine how far he could move after disembarking.
true...but on pg 90brb it explains about moving into difficult terrain...how is a wall difficult terrain? if it was included into area terrain then yes you would ask him to take the test, but if its simply a wall no, i wouldn't ask for the test as you simply moving over a wall. we assume at our club walls only convey a cover save unless they have a "defined boundary" pg 91 BRB then it would be area terrain. requiring a test.
 

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true...but on pg 90brb it explains about moving into difficult terrain...how is a wall difficult terrain? if it was included into area terrain then yes you would ask him to take the test, but if its simply a wall no, i wouldn't ask for the test as you simply moving over a wall. we assume at our club walls only convey a cover save unless they have a "defined boundary" pg 91 BRB then it would be area terrain. requiring a test.
That is further explained on pages 114 and 104.

On page 114, Aegis Defense lines are classified as Battlefield Debris (Defense Lines).

On page 104, it says that all battlefield debris is difficult terrain unless noted otherwise.

Think of it as the miniature hurdling or climbing over the defense line to get to enemy. Sometimes they hurdle it like it wasn't even there, sometimes, they get caught or take precaution while doing so. Hence the difficult terrain test.
 

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But his claim is mostly true, which is the major concern here. He can run his Land Raider up, take a difficult terrain test, and disembark over the wall.

The point of the wall is to provide cover to your troops. A fortification gives you a 3+ cover save, which is pretty nice. Even against assaulting troops it would lower their initiative, assuming they don't have rules bout that. But yes, it does little to hinder moving over them.
this is how we understand it, there is already a lot of random dice rolling that can slow the game down , and we feel that making a test to jump a wall is pointless...but i suppose it depends on your opponent and house rules.
 

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The hindrance to movement of the AGL is vital to the game IMO.

As others have said the correct procedure is to disembark then move, from the OP it seems as if the guy was just placing the models 6" away without any thought to how they go there.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
As others have said the correct procedure is to disembark then move, from the OP it seems as if the guy was just placing the models 6" away without any thought to how they go there.
yes this is what he did. he basically had the door open at the defence line. then placed them up to 6" away.

thanks for all the input and the page references.
 

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yes this is what he did. he basically had the door open at the defence line. then placed them up to 6" away.

thanks for all the input and the page references.
If he had any sense at all he'd have driven the LR through the AGL and then disembarked.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i guess no one realised that it was treated as difficult terain, i never knew it was until this post.
 

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But his claim is mostly true, which is the major concern here. He can run his Land Raider up, take a difficult terrain test, and disembark over the wall.

The point of the wall is to provide cover to your troops. A fortification gives you a 3+ cover save, which is pretty nice. Even against assaulting troops it would lower their initiative, assuming they don't have rules bout that. But yes, it does little to hinder moving over them.
The wall only grants a 4+ cover save.

the ADL terrain type is "battle field debris (defense line)

Pg 104 defense lines 4+ cover.
 

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The wall only grants a 4+ cover save.

the ADL terrain type is "battle field debris (defense line)

Pg 104 defense lines 4+ cover.
and pg. 104: "a unit that decides to go to ground behind a defense line gains +2 to its cover save, rather than +1."

So if you GtG behind the Aegis then you have a 2+ cover save.
 

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That is true, but confusing. a Defense Line is listed under fortifications, which on Page 18 says is a 3+.
That is just a general guide so that if you and your mate decide that "that ruin is fortified" then it should get a 3+ cover save.
 

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Of course he can drive "over" the wall, taking a Dangerous test for the Land Raider and then disembark "on the other side" foregoing the Difficult terrain test.

I assume this is what he did, from the way you described it.
 

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I assume this is what he did, from the way you described it.
The OP makes no mention of driving over the wall tho' does it, he says it drove up to it.
 

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I may be thinking 5th ed (not sure if it's still in there) but isn't there a rule that says a tank driving over a barricade can squish it on a passed terrain test? In the spirit of the game I'd say simply smashing through their Defence Line and disgorging your troops in the opening is a lot more fun than climbing over it (with given how ponderous they are termies might struggle with)
 
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