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Discussion Starter #1
Who uses denied flank? I do, and I love it. For those who do not know, denied flank is an often overlooked deployment and battle tactic.

You start by deploying something heavy and powerful in the center of your deployment zone (predator, land raider, carnifex, etc.). Then you only place units on one half of your deployment zone. This tactic is based upon the idea that your opponent will deploy their forces evenly along their deployment zone. Since you load heavily on one side you will meet half of his army with 75% - 100% of yours. The other half of his army gets shot in the process of trying to get to you. By the time they do, you still have 50% of your force and they have been whittled down to 25% at best.

I also like to play extreme denied flank (only loading on 1/4 of your deployment zone). this is risky though as your models are pie plate bait. It works well for extremely fast forces like ravenwing, white scars, and sam hain.

What other strategies or tactics do you use?
 

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I use denied flank quite often, though I will place something on the far opposite flank, like my basilisk, instead of in the middle. I use the basilisk because my opponent tends to overcompensate for it, making even veteran players who know what denied flank is spread their forces out.

I also use bait and hook tactics using cheap, expendable squads, much like the Tau Codex suggests (Patient Hunter I believe it's called).

Another tactic I employ is loading my slow units on one flank and my fast units on the other, then sweep my fast units to my slow side, creating a denied flank where none previously existed. I nearly always fight my battles with an attrition mindset, and will play units very cautiously until everything is in place to strike at once. Many players are overly agressive, especially meq players who think 3+ saves make them invulnerable.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
NecronNidMarine said:
I learned something new today :!: :D
What was that? Denied flank? The only reason I use it is because most people (in my experience anyway) line their armies up evenly across their deployment zone.
 

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It's fairly simple to pull off, It generally works to the best effect with fully mech armies where you can deploy your WHOLE army on one flank and turbo to the opposite flank In a single turn to pick on Isolated units and any deployment errors your opponents may have made.
 

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I use it all the time as well. Combine that with Infiltrating units and you can really mess up an opponents deployment plans :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The Wraithlord said:
Combine that with Infiltrating units and you can really mess up an opponents deployment plans :)
Now that's ruinous. :)
 

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I use it sometimes against slow armies, and short-ranged shooting armies.

I agree with uber + what he said in the other thread.
 

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i use this tactic but hide it so hopefully the enemy will send their units down the wrong side,i often use rhinos but with nothing inside them,sometimes ill put a suicide chosen squad in one all tooled up with plasma,melta,and close combat weapons,i want the enemy to committ their troops about half way down the wrong side,i then move a unit in a rhino up to meet them,using the rhino to block line of site from the rest of my army,my rhinos are all tooled up,x tra armour,dozer blades,havoc launcher,ill drop my unit of in a good defencable spot,and if i can ram the enemy or use my rhino to block line of site.My tactic is to use the rhinos to brake up the battle field into parts so i can controll and attack the enemy piece by piece
 

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I use a variation of the Refused Flank in almost every game I play...but, as i use Eldrad, I deploy 2-4 units on each flank, with others in the centre. His Divination ability allows me to then Refuse either Flank, depending on opponent's deployment, and mission, etc. Lazy, perhaps, but devastatingly effective. :)
 

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Well, devastatingly effective against some opponents, and very very ineffective vs others. It usually works, mind you, I'm not saying it doesn't, but you have to consider several things:

Does the opponent have many infiltrators/outflankers?
Can the opponent deep-strike (or daemonic infestation) a significative portion of his army?
Does he/she have indirect/barrage weapons?
How many pieplates does your opponent field?
What's the speed of the opponent troops (mechanized, jump, jetbike)?

Playing with my BA I love to see "denied flank" tactics, since my fast vehicles and troops can usually reposition better than my opponent's and I have my enemies bunched together so that I can usually flame and assault more than one unit at a time.

Similarly, with my nids I love to see troops close to one short edge for my outflanking genestealers and all bunched up for my barbed stranglers.

Other armies that cripple denied flank:

Destroyer heavy or flying circus necrons
Mechanized/fast attack/artillery IG
Eldar jetbikes/Mechanized eldar
Dark eldar raider heavy

So basically, what I'm saying is: use common sense before deploying. Vs non drop-podding marines without whirlwinds (about 30% of the armies out there?) it works great :)
 

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I use a variation of the denied flank but usually I have found now that scout and outflanking strategies are just as effective in completing the task.

Ask any guard opponent now after having faced off Marbo and they will tell you they would have probably prefered to have a bunch of tanks coming down the flank as they could have stopped it or at least moved to compensate.

That said, its a good tactic, but its time is done... it works well against new players but any experienced player should be ready for it and have counter deployment strategies already in the mix and also have a stratgey of deployment after looking at the board and the terrain.

Terrain is one of the most under stated and under written about topics that are discussed in 40k. We have all whined I am sure about cover rules, TLOS etc. But there are certain times when I glance at a board when people are deploying and I already know who has won based on their placement of terrain alone. (Not always, but sometimes). If I have an opponent who loves to use the denied flank tactic when setting up terrain I will place some rough or dangerous ground etc right along the sides hampering him/her or forcing them to attempt to deploy on the opposite flank and then have a nasty shock waiting for them.

I have also noticed that the denied flank works so well with IG as players suffer the death valley terrain syndrome of putting the terrainin starting zones leaving the centre a shooting alley or the sides drive up alleys. (You can bait a denied flank player at times using this strategem).


My signature strategy is the Flower Pattern flank or centre attack when using Mechanized forces. I play IG, so for me its chimera's. I run 6 of them which for those of you non guard types is less than 400 points total. (How expensive is a LR now?) and do two rows. The first of 3 is nothing but a screen, run hull to hull. This usually prevents most side on shots for the opening turn. they move forward and are usually empty, the second row contains the goodies of the guard who can all fire happily from AV12 bunkers on the move. (5 can fire, thats usually 3 melta or 3 plasma at least if you have put the right squads in the vehicles). Then its a matter of moving them forward and opening the front rank of the transports like the petals of a flower so the second rank completely unscathed comes through into the heart of the enemy and unleashes str 7 and str 8 multiple shots and follows up with heavy flamer death from AV 12 protection. With storm troopers deep striking, and marbo arriving at the other end to take care of anything thats too pesky or a pie plater.

Works fairly well, especially against small numbered foes, like SM and CSM and if executed properly will take the guts out of a tyranid attack too.

Thats one strategy I use, but its all situational depending on who I am facing, and if they will be to focused on their own plans instead of looking at what I am doing.

A lot of players I have noticed as well, have a plan and stick too it dogmatically and havent considered counter punch units or whats protecting this or that far too often. A lot of basks can be taken out or single vehciles that entire strategies rely on far too much to be effective.

Their are numerous other tricks too...

1. Don't keep staring at what you think they might be going for or what your concerned about.... people pick up on it and look and then may see what you do. Things look very different from 180 degrees of vision.

2. Large nice models attract anti-tank fire to stupid and absurd lengths at times even when their own fire has been completely ineffective.

3. Study your opponents list and learn their armies. If your facing nids, read their codex and learn what they can and can't do... (As dirty harry said... A man has to know his limitations!).

4. If playing against a rules lawyer always check the fine print.... half the time they are wrong.

5. Focus on the game and not your opponents words as you play. Have some faith in yourself. I have stopped certain death of myself by raising an eyebrow during movement phases and smiling and then watching them get cold feet. Bluff is just as important as skill. Even the best of us make stupid errors.

6. Don't let your opponent pick up dice and roll them and say 6 hits, 3 wounds you make 3 saves... in less than 3 seconds. If your not sure, say hey can you show me that.... half the time they have not even calculated it right.

7. Never let your opponent set up the terrain solo.... I always get a third party or place one peice equally at a time. Or even better you do it... be fair with it, but a lot of players will try and do a terrain set up that will allow them an edge. So many big buildings leading from his deployment to yours? good work CC, or large barren areas with zero around it... good work shooting gallery. It has to be a mix to be fair.

8. Have fun.... if the game has degenerated for you that its about winning and not having fun, then its really time to walk away and evaluate whether becoming emotionally involved over plastic space men means that you may have other issues in your life or require some refocus. Been there done it.... I love it, I am happy when I win, but I am also happy when I lose as I then have a new challenge before me to overcome.

Can't think of anything else right at this second....
 

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Try a army with all Infiltrate/Scout and keep everything in reserve. I love having 1 garanteed turn where all my army has a chance to make its points worth. When you deny your opponent of killing your stuff before it gets to shoot i find it gives you an advantage.
 

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With my semi-mobile shooty tau I usually deploy my more static elements away from my enemy and then mobile elements close. The mobile elements fight a retreat while the static supports and then the mobile stuff swings around after objectives. With my Orks I usually mass large boyz mobs on the middle and towards one side and then use nob bikers and warbikers wide on the other flank to force my opponent into a little space that gets overwhelmed by Orks.
 

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If I'm angry at my wife I use the denied food strategy... but then she uses the refused flank and I have to concede :p
 

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anyone really use the "hammer and anvil" and can give sime insight (though there is a whole topic on this already but always happy for some experience and knowledge sharing) ?
anyone use tactics with almost everything in reserve and how do they work?

anyone use "blitz" units like deffkoptas with turbosaws, wraith or Destroyerlord with warscythe and how do you use them?

Friend uses two deffkoptas with turbosaws and scouts/moves attacks into the enemy line picking up a stationary vehicle or a week unit to mess up the battleplan as it and maybe destroy this unit... and it works.
though his "blitz"koptas are not cheap they really pay off imho as the mess up the whole plan and if used right destroy often a unit close to their points or important for the oppopnents army (like my sqad of lootas once... my whole backup firepower was destroyed)
 

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Most players near me either spread out too much for a H&A, or are too savvy to it. I did do it successfully a couple times with Nob Bikers 6 months ago, and it's nearly been long enough that they'll have forgotten how painful that was...:p

One thing I like to do, unusually, with my Nob Bikes, is shoot, instead of T-B'ing. They have 3 S5 t-l shots each - more than enough to mince small units, and it lets the opponent think he can counter the unit by moving more towards them, when it just gives me a better multi-charge next turn. :)

Different Reserve armies work differently, but, ideally you need the enemy to spread out, so when you come in you can hit them so hard in one area, just like with a RF, that they can't fight back with the remnants. A key component is the denial of Shooting phases to the opponent - which, again, means that your own shooting has to be devastating enough to make up for losing phases yourself.
 
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