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Originally, it looked like it was just going to be 1 shot S9 AP 1. Now, if you don't move you can fire three times. With S 9 Ordinance and Twin-Linked, you're pretty much guaranteed at least one penetrating hit and with AP 1 you have 1/3rd chance of blowing shit up. Not bad for 130 points
 

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Jeepers
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Definitely picking up one of them at some point, don't care about the rules it's beautiful.
 

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I do like the look of that as well. I love the rules for Laser Destroyers anyway, but having the ability to fire 2 or 3 times at BS 4 and twin linked is really nice. Gunna be someone very useful against Monoliths, Land Raiders, Knights...
 

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Closet Dictator
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I do like the look of that as well. I love the rules for Laser Destroyers anyway, but having the ability to fire 2 or 3 times at BS 4 and twin linked is really nice. Gunna be someone very useful against Monoliths, Land Raiders, Knights...
Totally agree, the more I look at this the more I love it, I always thought spacemarines lacked serious long range firepower. I wonder if they will bring out other vindicator varients, I think 2 of these could easily find a home in my list!
 

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That's a lovely piece of kit :good:
 

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Totally agree, the more I look at this the more I love it, I always thought spacemarines lacked serious long range firepower. I wonder if they will bring out other vindicator varients, I think 2 of these could easily find a home in my list!
Space Marines lack cheap massed fire power. You can get ranged with Mortis Dreads,Predator Annihilators, Lascannon Devastators, Centurions, even Land Raider Proteus or Phobos.
However this thing is better than any of the options above for lower price. 3 twinlinked shots with ordinance! Holy molly!!! I do want more vindicator variants!
 

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For light vehicles, the Sicaran still wins I think. However, against Land Raiders and even occasionally Flare Shielded Spartans, and other high AV vehicles, this one looks like a winner.

However, I still think that your go to against Super-heavies is probably a Sicaran Venetor. The ability to force Super-heavies to snap shot from 1 penetrating hit is phenomenal, especially for less than 200 points.
 

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For light vehicles, the Sicaran still wins I think. However, against Land Raiders and even occasionally Flare Shielded Spartans, and other high AV vehicles, this one looks like a winner.

However, I still think that your go to against Super-heavies is probably a Sicaran Venetor. The ability to force Super-heavies to snap shot from 1 penetrating hit is phenomenal, especially for less than 200 points.
Flare Shield Spartan is doing one joh, transporting assault units to the front line. It gets them into an assault turn 2, because 12" move, 6" move, 6" disembark, 2d6" assault gets you there. There is no other purpose or reasoning to take them. They can't shoot well for their points, they are just highly resilient conveyer belts. With 5 HP and AV14, a Vindicator has a 30% chance with each HIT of causing a glance.

88% accuracy, 30% damage = 26.5% chance per shot of causing a single hull point in damage. Bleh.

Grav Rapiers = bs4 blast on the hull of a spartan = 83% chance of single hull point and puts vehicle if difficult and dangerous terrain. Take 6, dead spartan first turn, you now have a slow assault unit which can be kited and picked apart, stood in difficuot and dangerous terrain all game.

That is the ONLY way, bar Strength D to take down Spartans etc.

Vindi TDs are for medium armour, such as vs Sicarans etc, where they can fire they 88% accurate shots, with a 75% chance of causing a HP in damage, compared to a much more expensive Sicaran which has 6 shots at the same accuracy, but only a 17% damage chance. Vs rhinos, the TD glances on a 2+ with a reroll, something like 97% accuracy. The Sicaran does it on a 4+.

Against vehicles, at all levels, the Sicaran is beaten, especially as Rending is nigh useless for the important things vs vehicles. The exception is hovering flyers and land speeders etc which can jink. Like the Deredeo relegating the Contempor Mortis to a 'has been', so does the Vindi TD relegate the Sicaran to a niche use in taking down 4+ save bikers (because relying on rending for its special rule to kick in vs MEQ's is crap) or light skimmers/hovering flyers.

Against SH's, of course the Venator is the better option. Just wait until someone takes a Warlord loaded with Strength D blast weapons when it is released; resulting in a prime target for being forced to snap shoot with them. S10AP1 is kind of meh for taking on AV14 SH's. Either drop in/outflank a load of Meltas on the AV12 rears or just haywire spam them to death.

My biggest complaint is that it can't be 1-3, i'd want a pair of Deredeo and a pair of Fire Raptor to fulfil my every HS need as well, but without double CAD (not available in 30k) i'm stuck.



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Flare Shield Spartan is doing one joh, transporting assault units to the front line. It gets them into an assault turn 2, because 12" move, 6" move, 6" disembark, 2d6" assault gets you there. There is no other purpose or reasoning to take them. They can't shoot well for their points, they are just highly resilient conveyer belts. With 5 HP and AV14, a Vindicator has a 30% chance with each HIT of causing a glance.

88% accuracy, 30% damage = 26.5% chance per shot of causing a single hull point in damage. Bleh.

Grav Rapiers = bs4 blast on the hull of a spartan = 83% chance of single hull point and puts vehicle if difficult and dangerous terrain. Take 6, dead spartan first turn, you now have a slow assault unit which can be kited and picked apart, stood in difficuot and dangerous terrain all game.

That is the ONLY way, bar Strength D to take down Spartans etc.

Vindi TDs are for medium armour, such as vs Sicarans etc, where they can fire they 88% accurate shots, with a 75% chance of causing a HP in damage, compared to a much more expensive Sicaran which has 6 shots at the same accuracy, but only a 17% damage chance. Vs rhinos, the TD glances on a 2+ with a reroll, something like 97% accuracy. The Sicaran does it on a 4+.

Against vehicles, at all levels, the Sicaran is beaten, especially as Rending is nigh useless for the important things vs vehicles. The exception is hovering flyers and land speeders etc which can jink. Like the Deredeo relegating the Contempor Mortis to a 'has been', so does the Vindi TD relegate the Sicaran to a niche use in taking down 4+ save bikers (because relying on rending for its special rule to kick in vs MEQ's is crap) or light skimmers/hovering flyers.

Against SH's, of course the Venator is the better option. Just wait until someone takes a Warlord loaded with Strength D blast weapons when it is released; resulting in a prime target for being forced to snap shoot with them. S10AP1 is kind of meh for taking on AV14 SH's. Either drop in/outflank a load of Meltas on the AV12 rears or just haywire spam them to death.

My biggest complaint is that it can't be 1-3, i'd want a pair of Deredeo and a pair of Fire Raptor to fulfil my every HS need as well, but without double CAD (not available in 30k) i'm stuck.
See this is what happens when I just state a gut feeling rather than stats.

Aye, I agree with the no squadron thing. I mean, Land Raiders can be taken in squadrons for god's sake, as can predators, as can ordinance (basilisk, medusa, whirlwind). However, for some reason, Vindicators Whirldwind Scorpius remain as a single choice.

As for your desires, can't you just take 2 Deredeos and then a Fire Raptor flyer wing as a LOW choice? Or do you have something else lined up for the LOW slot?
 

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See this is what happens when I just state a gut feeling rather than stats.

Aye, I agree with the no squadron thing. I mean, Land Raiders can be taken in squadrons for god's sake, as can predators, as can ordinance (basilisk, medusa, whirlwind). However, for some reason, Vindicators Whirldwind Scorpius remain as a single choice.

As for your desires, can't you just take 2 Deredeos and then a Fire Raptor flyer wing as a LOW choice? Or do you have something else lined up for the LOW slot?
Not being funny mate, please don't take it that way, but there's gut feeling and being completely wrong about it ;)

If we're ever in a horror movie together, let me know if you ever get a gut feeling, I'll listen and do exactly the opposite :wink:

Fire Raptors have 4 HP, you need to have 3 or less HP to form a flyer wing, and without being a Super Heavy Flyer, there's no way to take it as a LoW.



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Not being funny mate, please don't take it that way, but there's gut feeling and being completely wrong about it ;)
You wound me! :cray:

If we're ever in a horror movie together, let me know if you ever get a gut feeling, I'll listen and do exactly the opposite :wink:

Fire Raptors have 4 HP, you need to have 3 or less HP to form a flyer wing, and without being a Super Heavy Flyer, there's no way to take it as a LoW.
Ah, that's a shame. I couldn't remember the rules for a Flyer Wing, that's the only reason I suggested it.

A thought I had (so you may wish to do the opposite about now :wink:) was that whilst the new Vindicator easily outclasses the Sicaran in "sit-n-shoot" match-ups, how about if we consider drive-by shootings. The Sicaran's main gun has 360 arc of fire and can move 12" and shoot, whereas the Vindicator would have to cost 10 points more than it does for PotMS (5 points more than a Sicaran mind) to fire it's gun on the move like that, and then it would get only one shot and would have to turn it's lesser rear/side AV 10/11 to fire at targets not directly in front of it. So is it worth it?

Well, the Sicaran has 6 shots, the Vindicator has 1. Sicaran hits with 5.3, the Vindicator with 0.9. If the thing you're drive by shooting is AV 10, Sicaran deals 3.6 HP (so wrecked) and the Vindicator has a 60% chance of blowing the thing up. Against AV 11, the stats are 2.7 HP for the Sicaran and 50% chance of an explodes from the Vindicator. Against AV 12, the stats are 1.8 HP from the Sicaran and 40% for an Explodes from the Vindicator. Then you have to take into account that to effectively drive by shoot, the Vindicator has to expose it's more delicate rear/side armours, which are lower than the Sicaran's

I bring this up because I'm not sure this Vindicator relegates the Sicaran to a has-been. It's still the nimbler and can more easily move up for flank something like a Vindicator/Predator/Wave Serpent\Hammerhead\etc and end it that way. In a raw ordinance sense, this Vindicator is the shit don't get me wrong. But especially when everyone is crying cheese over what we've seen of the new Eldar and such, surely it just means that people have to more carefully consider when they take which tank and what kind of battle field they're playing on. In an open field, the Vindicator could kill the Sicaran before it ever reached it. On the other hand, in a city battle where you have narrow crowded streets, the Sicaran's ability to move 12" and fire 2(?) of it's weapons is pretty decent still.

I suppose it's just picking the right tools for the right jobs.
 

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Looks... dumb.

Gun should've been placed on the Land Raider chassis. I am not a fan of this "Let's make the rhino chassis carry every heavy gun in the game, plus 200 more we've made up" thing Forgeworld have going on.

FW releases for 40k have been pretty weak recently, ignoring the shoulder pads etc.
 
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