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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Mentioned this in another thread, but after recently reading HR again i've decided i don't like it, purely because it makes me like Horus so much! He's probably one of the most likeable characters of any book i've read, makes his fall so much more tragic and heartfelt. Before Horus was always a character i could easily hate and see him as the complete evil bastard he's portrayed as before now, but now i can't help but feel bad about the whole thing. Probably why it's rated as such an excellent book

Anyone else hate HR a little bit for this?

(obviously i don't really dislike or hate it before anyone misunderstands this!)
 

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The title of this topic is very misleading. I was ready to ask what the hell's wrong with you.

But yeah thats the point of it. Horus wasn't an arrogant asshole like most would have expected him to be. He was quite kind, friendly and respected those who fought alongside him, regardless of who they were. Makes him a better character and makes what he became that much sadder, he became the mirror opposite of what he was all because the Emperor didn't care enough.
 

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I feel the same about Fulgrim. The book is fantasticly written, but it saddens me to see one of the purest souls fall. The actual ending, meaning the last page, the last sentences were quite mind-blowing. As if a voice in your head started screaming. "NOOO, it can't end this way" Same about Saul Tarvitz, Torgaddon, Abbaddon, 'Little Horus' and Garviel Loken in Galaxy in Flames. I find it great that the books are written so wonderfull that you can almost live into the character. You start to like their personality, see how much it confers to the story and it's quite a shock to have that taken away. It's like wishing the book ends in a whole different way and that when you pick up the next that character is still there, with the same personality, battling for the good. But I guess that's the fate of the 40k novels. There is only war, and war brings death.

I've recently read some Gaunt's Ghosts novels and it's saddening when they escape their planet with 3.5k troops to then read how they die knowing full well that each and every man less is one more memory of Tanith erased. It's something the authors want, they want you to feel like you know the characters, as if you're there as well. That you can imagine the world and see it in front of you. A sort of testimony of the brave actions undertaken by actually just nothing more than words. It gives the saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" all credit. I felt these things when reading the Horus Heresy with the Luna Wolves, the Emperors children and the Imperial Guard in Legion. Just as when I felt it with the Tanith and Volpone regiments in Gaunt's Ghosts or the Vostroyans in Rebel Winter. Even when Malus Darkblade stabbed his own retainers to death I felt a slight sting. I guess there's no escaping. It should stick with you for a while but shouldn't keep you from reading further, once you do, you'll notice your mind is taken away from such things after a while.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I like the fact that BL made Horus into a more likeable and smarter character. It further explains why the emperor would make such a intelligent and diplomatic being warmaster. He truly might have been the best man to have led the crusade, but as they say, the bigger the man, the bigger the fall.

I don't think I would have followed the heresy if the primarchs were the basic daemonized characters that they have always been made out to be. Horus the big bad monster makes the 40k universe fall deeper into chaos because hes a jelous spoiled little bastard. So.... cliche.
 

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I understand were your coming from but, isnt that the whole point of these stories?

To show how tragic it was that these great beings fell into a swift brutal descent into chaos?

Im sure when we read "my first heretic" Itll be the same baseline with the primarch.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Exactly, the hate/dislike comment like i said is just in jest. It's precisely why i rank the Horus Heresy novels as highly as i do
 

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Bane of Empires
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I like the fact that BL made Horus into a more likeable and smarter character
Well it was never any different, Horus was always the First Primarch, best and brightest. Thats what makes the Heresy so tragic, because he was the best of the best and he still fell.

I feel the same about Fulgrim...
Spoilers for Dark Disciple:



Im sure when we read "my first heretic" Itll be the same baseline with the primarch.
Aye, although its likely it'll be done from a different angle. As ADB says in the trailer, Lorgar is really the only Primarch who turns willingly to Chaos when he is of completely sound mind. The tragedy of The First Heretic is the fall of Lorgar to Chaos but I imagine this theme will be based around hatred of the Emperor for his actions, as arguably it is he who drives the Word Bearers into heresy (not only due to the reasons of his chastisement, but moreso due to his Imperial truth being a lie).
 

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I'm not yet ready to throw Horus in the 'he fell from grace' pile.

We know that somewhere down the line Horus is going to go 1v1 with the Big E and that he will have the power of chaos behind him.

But who is using who?

I have this feeling that Horus has plans beyond defeating the Emperor and being the play thing of the gods (well except Tzeentch maybe :grin: )

I just hope that we get further insight into post-Davin Horus and his motives before it all ends.

I suspect he could be the unlikely hero of the Horus Heresy who just had to die.
 

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The fact that hourus is so likable and a great superhuman guy is why i loved the book so much. Although he does , in my opinion, become an evil person on istavan and kill his master of astropaths and bomb the planet
 

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This is also what makes the first HH trilogy hard for me to read. So many likeable characters dead and gone.
Same here too. I get real attached to some of the characters and most of them just eventually die off. Although it was nice to hear that Loken would be coming back. Was one of the characters I was attached to the most.

Also, I don't know if some of you felt the same way, but the Remembrancers stuck with me well. I really enjoyed the characters Karkasky, Petronella, and Serena d' Angelus, but they all had to die..:angry:
 

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Angryman
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Solomon Demeter(Corrected a bone headed mistake). I liked him too. That is how you can tell a books characers are well developed, you empathise with them. Or loathe the bad guys. I hated lucius more than any. Kharn is a legend though.

That is the strange thing. I have allways been a chaos man but the hh books swing me the other way.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Solomon Demeter you mean ^^ but yeah he was very likeable aswell, was sad to see him laid down so low by Lucius tricking him into killing his own men. Tarvitz aswell, i just hope hes alive down with Rylanor, he definetly seems to have found some underground bunker, wouldnt make much sense for him to not go down there himself with Vipus.

Decius was hard to see aswell, likeable if not a bit arrogant and immature, still sad to see him kill Sendek aswell. And minor as he was apothecary Vaddon being killed off tending to all the wounded was another one. And Titus Cassar or course,

But yeah as you said, it really gets you attatched to the characters, in part to me because they are loyalists from the traitor legions who never really got a massive amount of fluff their way before now. Every time one of them dies that Legion loses a little bit more of its former glory and loyalty
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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When I got to the betrayal of Sol by Lucius, I was ready to go get some white-out and put a bullet in his head.
 

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Speaking about Lucius, I actually liked the character before he back stabbed Sol. He sounded like a very noble character in the novel, then suddenly without warning he just became an asshole. But it was the sacrifice of that character to make the others look cooler. It was a legit sacrifice to me.
 

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I'm not yet ready to throw Horus in the 'he fell from grace' pile.

We know that somewhere down the line Horus is going to go 1v1 with the Big E and that he will have the power of chaos behind him.

But who is using who?

I have this feeling that Horus has plans beyond defeating the Emperor and being the play thing of the gods (well except Tzeentch maybe :grin: )

I just hope that we get further insight into post-Davin Horus and his motives before it all ends.

I suspect he could be the unlikely hero of the Horus Heresy who just had to die.
I will be really disappointed if it turns out the Emperor was just blind to what was going on with the primarchs. I really want the Emperor to have planned the whole thing, understanding that he couldn't make the galaxy a utopia for humanity because they would fall to the same fate as the Eldar, so he specifically engineered what the current 40k universe has become.
 

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I agree completely. I must of read the first 3 books of the HH at least 10 times, but every time I still get that same feeling I got when I first read the book. Everytime I read about the death of Torgaddon in my head i scream nooooooooooooooo tarik!! I have a friend who I just got into reading, and even though my friends and I must of spoiled to him what happened a million times, he still texted me when Horus turned screamed in all caps haha.

To top it off, of the 4 friends i have that are into warhammer, 3 of them, plus myself and completely for the emperor, we hate all chaos. We would always have arguements with last friend who is for chaos, a proud follower of the Black Legion. This friend was always saying how Loken was dead and would never come back, so when we found out that Loken is alive, my black templar friend walked up to him in the middle of the hallway at school and smacked him across the face for not believing Loken was alive.

These authors are so incredible that they can make the reader feel like they personally know the character, and when they die or something tragic happens to them, feel bad about it.
 

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This friend was always saying how Loken was dead and would never come back, so when we found out that Loken is alive, my black templar friend walked up to him in the middle of the hallway at school and smacked him across the face for not believing Loken was alive.
Your friend takes his 40k very seriously! Incidentally, that's exactly what I felt like doing to Dan Abnett, the demon prince of retcon, when I heard Loken was still alive. Way to suck all the tragedy out Galaxy in Flames Dan.
 
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