[Orochi]

Ok, here we go.

Belial
-Lightning Claws
= 130
(leads Squad 1)

Interrogator Chaplain
-Terminator armour
= 145
(leads Squad 2)

Deathwing Terminator Squad 1
-4 Terminators with Lightning Claws
-1 Terminator with Assault cannon and Powerfist
= 245
(go in Landraider Crusader 1)

Deathwing Terminator Squad 2
-1 Apoc Terminator with Lightning Claws
-1 Terminator with Lightning Claws and Deathwing Banner
-2 Terminators with Lighning claws
-1 Terminator with Assault cannon and Powerfist
= 300
(go in Landraider Crusader 2)

Deathwing Terminator Squad 3
-4 Terminators with Powerfists and Stormbolters
-1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Stormbolter and Powerfist
= 235

Deathwing Terminator Squad 4
-4 Terminators with Powerfists and Stormbolters
-1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Stormbolter and Powerfist
= 235

Dreadnaught
-Missile launcher
-Twinlinked lascannon
= 155

Dreadnaught
-Missile launcher
-Twinlinked lascannon
= 155

Dreadnaught
-Assault cannon
-Dreadnaught Close combat weapon
-Heavy flamer
-Drop pod
= 180

Landraider Crusader 1
-Extra armour
= 265

Landraider Crusader 2
-Extra armour
= 265

Vindicator
-Extra armour
= 140

Total = 2450

What do you think? I'm still getting the hang of the layouts for Deathwing squads weapon wise.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[High_Seraph]

dop the extra armour and the vindicator all together to pay for it and maybe some chainfists for some of the terminators. switch one squad for total cc th/sh 1 twin lighting claw 2 one with the cyclone ml or AssCan, chainfist, apothocarie(orhowever ya spell it)/banner, and chainfist for wound allocation?

 

[Orochi]

Weel by dropping all the Extra armour upgrades (45 total) and the Vinidicator (125) and the 50 points left over, I'll have 220 points to play with.

I can get a Cheap Terminator squad for body count increase. And lets be honest, even with 4 x PF/SB and a PW/SB, thats still pretty formidable. It's a nice 'Clean up' squad. Also makes a nice flank guard amd could even be used to block charges against my Dreads and Cyclone squads via deepstrike.

The general plan would be to use the 2 ML/TLLC dreads and both Cyclone squads as a 'baseline' and placing the Crusaders on eitehr opposite flanks OR on the saem flank. Depending on whether I plan to 'Pincer' or Refuse a flank.

Unfortunately, seeing as Belial is little more than a Glorified Sergeant (4 str 4 attacks) he is in the second of the assault squads, they will go after other assault units, such as terminators, berzerkers etc. The other squad will go after massed infantry, where is huge amount of attacks and re-rolls will hopefully allow me to steam roll units.

Both squads sport an Assault cannon for ranged damage. It's usefulness against a large amount of targets in my eyes, made slecting it over the more 'assaulty' Heavy flamer. And a Cyclone has no place in an Assault squad.

The Assault Dread is there for CC back up, and flank guarding.

The 2 Landraider Crusaders offer the bulk of my Anti-infantry firepower.

I'm well aware of the size of the army, which makes the 5th Deathwing squad over the Extra armour and Vinidcator very Appealing.

Thoughts?

 

[Don_Keyballs]

I agree with dropping the extra armor and vindi for another base squad. At 2500, you will be going up some serious numbers and with only 20 units that aren't armor or an HQ... numbers are your friend. Not to mention, you risk that vindi scattering ontop of your own CC units which could REALLY hurt.

As for the cyclone in your assult squads... I would agrue that they would be almost better then an assualt cannon because you can still give that termie TLC or TH/SS. But personally, I'm all for the Asscan's. Rending is quite nice... and I would prefer to use an Asscan over a Autocannon any day because of it. And Asscan can take down a LR when you roll 6's where an Autocannon can't do squat.


But back to your list... I run something similar, but just be warry of which units you attack. Priority is very important to pick out, and make sure you are tactics are in place. At 2500pts, you are using 25 terms, 2 HQ in term armor, 2 LRCs and 3 Dreads. 32 targets at 2500pts is not a lot and even single wound is an important wound.

Good hunting and post some battle reports if you could because most of the time I go against CSM and I would like to see how this list performs against other armies.

 

[Orochi]

I could go back down to 2000 points by dropping all three dreads (whom I'll be purchasing last anyway).
So for 2k points, the list minus the dreads and Vindi, adding in another base squad...how does that look?

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

dop the extra armour and the vindicator all together to pay for it and maybe some chainfists for some of the terminators. switch one squad for total cc th/sh 1 twin lighting claw 2 one with the cyclone ml or AssCan, chainfist, apothocarie(orhowever ya spell it)/banner, and chainfist for wound allocation?

I am not so sure about the full squad of TH/SS terminators because the 4++ is only in cc. Other than that it's 5++ and they will get shot up.

 

[Don_Keyballs]

I could go back down to 2000 points by dropping all three dreads (whom I'll be purchasing last anyway).
So for 2k points, the list minus the dreads and Vindi, adding in another base squad...how does that look?

For 2k points, I would almost argue to keep some dreads for Anti-Tank because you would be really lacking guns capable of tanking out armor other then the 2 multi-meltas on the crusaders and possible the assualt cannons. But then you are lacking in numbers again... so really... it could go either way :S. I know you are sticking with the pure deathwing theme.... but maybe instead of a dread, pick up a Pred with lascannons or a devastator squad for that anti-tank. Thats just my thoughts though.

More terms the marrier though .

 

[Chumbalaya]

I'd definitely pick up another Termie squad over the Vindicator. More scoring bodies and long range firepower is very handy.

 

[Orochi]

Right ok. Before I write up a new list, can you help me with one last thing.

The 2 Cyclone Missile squads. Whats peoples views on them? What would you change? If anything?

Aswell as theme, I want this army to perform well as an army.

 

[Don_Keyballs]

Personally, I'm up in the air over the DA cyclone missle launchers. The CML in the new 5th edition codexs being 2 shots rather then the DA 1 makes them much more viable. Those squads will be either footslogging up the board or holding home objectives, so the extra range of the CML is a benifit. Being the 2k point list described is lacking some anti-armor, I would then suggest, what is better for taking out armor, 1 CML shot or 4 Asscan shots. But then you have the argument that the Asscan is shorter range and with the asscan you don't get the 5th storm bolter for the squad.

Personally, I would change them for Asscans because I just prefer them as they have more shots with the possiblity to do much more to armor with rending.

I would run them together as a pair... never seperate them as by themselves they can be taken out... but together, working as one, they should be able to crush whatever it is that is infront of them.

Thats my 2 cents at least.

 

[Orochi]

So Assault cannons in the 2 footslogging squads? I suppose, the general lack of speed means assaulters would catch up fast and the AC can kill 4 things a turn.

I'll run a couple of play tests. See how it goes.

 

[Chumbalaya]

Cyclones don't have 2 shots, but they have twice the range of ACs and do a much better job suppressing/destroying lighter armor from far away. Based on how your army is set up, cyclones fit better.

 

[Don_Keyballs]

Are cyclone missle launchers now heavy 2 in 5th edition?? I don't have my codex infront of me as I am at work... but I was pretty postive they are now 2 shots compared to the DA 1.

But back to the task at hand... if you are going up against a lot of light armor, then the CML might be the better choice in the long run... but like you said... play test it and find out what works best for you.

 

[Orochi]

The group I face is a large gaming group. So it's all over the shop.

Mainly Tyranids, Chaos, Air cavalry guard and Orks, both green tide and Mech.

All my group tier to competitive play.

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

As does my group. They min/max their lists.

 

[Don_Keyballs]

Well, so it looks like some mech and some horde... in that case... you have 2 squads... why not have 1 CML and 1 Asscan. That way you get the best of both worlds. I still stand by what I said with keep both groups close together as seperate units they would be like a simple hammer... effective but may take a few hits to put a nail in... together... they would be like a sledge hammer... one hit is all you need to drive that nail in.

 

[High_Seraph]

I am not so sure about the full squad of TH/SS terminators because the 4++ is only in cc. Other than that it's 5++ and they will get shot up.

Sorry about poor wording, I meant to tack a toal cc unit with th/sh and others not a whole unit

 

[Orochi]

Hmm, ok, second attempt:

Belial
-Lightning claws
(Leads Squad 1)

Interrogator Chaplain
-Terminator armour
= 145
(Leads Squad 2)

Deathwing Terminator Squad 1
-1 Terminator with Assault Cannon and Chainfist
-3 Terminators with Lightning Claws
-1 Terminator Sergeant with Lightning Claws
= 250
(Transported by Landraider Crusader 1)

Deathwing Terminator Squad 2
-1 Terminator with Lightning Claws and Deathwing Banner
-1 Terminator Apocathery with Lightning Claws
-1 Terminator with Lightning Claws
-1 Terminator Sergeant with Lightning Claws
-1 Terminator with Assault Cannon and Powerfist
= 300
(Transported by Landraider Crusader 2)

Deathwing Terminator Squad 3
-1 Terminator Sergeant with Stormbolter and Power sword
-1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Stormbolter and Powerfist
-3 Terminators with Stormbolters and Powerfists
= 235

Deathwing Terminator Squad 4
-1 Terminator Sergeant with Stormbolter and Power sword
-1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Stormbolter and Powerfist
-3 Terminators with Stormbolters and Powerfists
= 235

Deathwing Terminator Squad 5
-1 Terminator Sergeant with Stormbolter and Power sword
-4 Terminators with Stormbolters and Powerfists
= 215

Deathwing Dreadnaught 1
-Missile Launcher
-Twinlined Lascannon
= 155

Deathwing Dreadnaught 2
-Missile Launcher
-Twinlined Lascannon
= 155

Deathwing Dreadnaught 3
-Assault Cannon
-Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapon
-Heavy Flamer
-Drop Pod
= 180

Landraider Crusader 1
= 250

Landraider Crusader 2
= 250

Total = 2500

How Does this look?

 

[Chumbalaya]

Drop Termie armor on the IC so you can fit in another cyclone. A DW squad without a heavy weapon is useless.

 

[Don_Keyballs]

Looks pretty Deathwing to me... not to forget the fear in your opponents eyes when he realizes all he is going up against is terms, dreads and LRs... Good Hunting my friend... don't forget to put up some battle reports.