[Xabre]

So I need some advice, or maybe suggestions. I've been thinking about different ways of playing all Terminator based armies. And as I've been looking, I've realized something. It's probably a dating issue, which is kind of silly, since Dark Angels is not very old... but they seem... obsolete for running Deathwing.

Here's my thoughts on it:

Grey Knights. Terminators there are just amazing, cheap, strong, every one starting with a power weapon (some prefer it to Fists, after all), and with some decent weapon upgrades. Hammerhand is great, though Force took a hit with the psychic tests. You can run the whole army using a nice, cheap Librarian, even at level 3 and bells and whistles. Add a BroCaptain or Grand Master and you can even add an extra heavy weapon to the squad. Downside? Nothing past 24" in range.

Space Wolves. With the new formation (Champions of Fenris? I forget), you can have a formation of up to 4 HQs (terminator WGBL), and something like 6 squads of Elites. You don't need any troops, and the best part is that Wolf Guard Terminators automaticlaly are WS5 in that formation. With access to Frost weaponry, you get great options for basically any encounter. You don't even need to run full 5 man squads, but if you do, you can add the traditional CML and Assault Cannon. Downside? They don't get a turn 1 DS.

Deathwing. You must take Belial, and he must be your Primary Detachment HQ. Not a huge deal on the detachment issue, but Belial in general just isn't that great... simply a Chapter Master. No fancy weapon options like a GK BroCaptain, and the only really unique option is the Sword of Silence, which is also the only option to use Precision Strike. They do get that Precision Strike, and the Deathwing Assault, but Grey Knights also get a fairly strong chance at Turn 1, and instead get the Battle Focus for the turn. So what do the Angels get? Plasma Cannons?

I'm curious what people think. Are Deathwing worth it anymore? Or do they only exist now to support the rest of the First, instead of on their own?

 

[scscofield]

I never felt the new DA were designed to be all DW or RW actually. I feel they built the whole codex with the intent that you take a bit of Green, Black, and Bone.

Honestly I think the all termy armies are less powerful in general across the board. They are too single purpose and by nature of the points small to be really great. Most games have multiple objectives and it tends to screw over small elite forces, especially if they are not highly mobile.

 

[MidnightSun]

Deathwing stopped being a viable army when the 6th ed DA book came out that made Belial horrendously overpriced and increased the cost of the basic Terminators by an extra, what, 9pts.

GK can do a fairly convincing all-Terminator armour as long as you bring Dreadknights, Servo Skulls and a Comms Relay, but even then it's FAR better used as an ally to even 25 Marines in Rhinos/Razorbacka with an HQ.

I'd also point out that the problem with GK isn't their range - since they all Deep Strike or have Personal Teleporters, 24" range isn't generally an issue. The massive problem I run into is anti-heavy armour. Psycannons are great anti-light armour and anti-anything with a statline, but GK can't cope with heavy armour due to their lack of Meltas. You need to ally in something to deal with AV13/14 or try and get into combat with it - not a pretty proposition against Necrons, who will be able to unleash their full, horrifyingly efficient firepower since you're deep-striking right into their optimum range.