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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
why the heck would the Imperium use siege armys? after world war 1 3 invention made trench warfare impossable, first: the tank and we know the Imperium has oodles of tanks, second: improments air craft percisely speaking bombers and the Imperium has good Bommbers too, Third: improvments to artilary leathlity and improved artilary tatics, both the Imperium has.

in the Cold war Thermobaric weapons were invented, which are to quto Wikipedia , "thermobaric weapon, which includes the type known as a "fuel-air bomb", is an explosive weapon that produces a blast wave of a significantly longer duration than those produced by condensed explosives." the side effect of the fire ball is a massive vaccum created by the the fire bal sucking in all the air, you sufficate and in extream case can have the lungs ripped out of you, :shok::puke: this works well on people dug into tunnels or caves, or bunkers. and lests not forget bunker buster bombs which can rip though 20 feet of croncrete or world war 2 earth quake bombs which upon impact with earth dig in, the expode makeing a earth quake that dose the damage. and if it can destroy a rail road tunnel by going 60 feet though the hill it will destroy a trench.

whith these advancemts why the heck do you need seige regimentes? heck with as many armor and mecinized reiments as seige regiments were deploy I could have ended the war for Vraks (imperal armor 5,6,7) in 3 years.
 

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Not quite sure what you're specifically getting at. I assume you mean besieging a city or territory?

Having not read the book in particular, could you fill in some details why the Death Korp was less than efficient?
 

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There is still siege warfare in 40K for the same reasons SM have rapid firing high velocity grenade launchers, laser cannons that can cut a tank in half and plasma guns that burn hotter than the sun... and swords!
It's a style of play that appeals to players, simple as that.

On a side note, please run a spell check!
It will make your posts easier to read and easier for others to understand. None of us are perfect, that's why spell check is there.
 

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because wars of atrition are fun for some people.
i think its because some people just enjoy seiges the ability to starve an entire city while leveling buildings.
 

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also the point about fuel air bombs, don't really work so much now, for the reason that the death corps wear fully enclosed respirators so sucking out the air from their lungs wouldn't work, same goes for space marines.
Also you have to consider that when offensive tech improves so does the defensive tech.
And really would you want to run at a 1000m meter high wall in the open, you'd be ripped to shreds, so when laying siege to fortress using a trench system is the best way to approach a wall for siege purposes.
so there is a lot of point to them plus its COOL! :laugh:
 

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Not to mention, some fortresses that have been by the 41st millenium are nigh unto impregnable (Hydra Cordatus comes to mind). For some of these campaigns against these 'super fortresses,' a long-term siege is the only method to really tear it down, completely through attrition.

Not to mention the Death Korps models just look so damn cool.
 

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It's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to look cool
TRUE! We're talking about world where you can kill someone with adamantium (thicker than steel!) armour with mere sword, and there huge bugs can tear tanks apart, and where superhuman knights often fight without helmets, leaving their most vunerable body part uncovered.

Less sense, moar fun.
 

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why the heck would the Imperium use siege armys? after world war 1 3 invention made trench warfare impossable, first: the tank and we know the Imperium has oodles of tanks, second: improments air craft percisely speaking bombers and the Imperium has good Bommbers too, Third: improvments to artilary leathlity and improved artilary tatics, both the Imperium has.
Ah..but with the invention of the Tank, came the Anti-Tank Mine, and the Anti-Tank Weapon. With the invention of the Bomber came Anti-Aircraft Technology. Trenches are, by their design, able to counter the effects of conventional HE artillery.

So if a squad of Tanks were to push forward to break through a line of trenches, they would be easy targets for melta-gunners/rocket launcher crews in the trenches, to say nothing of mines or remote-detonated explosives. Keep in mind, Anti-Tank weapons in M41 are far superior to what we have these days. This is why armor cannot advance without an infantry screen.

Trench Warfare is also an ideology more than a technical requirement. Modern day armies are built around mobility and specialization. Squads are often far smaller than they were 100 years ago, and they have far greater support at their disposable.

Leaders today are not willing to send their soldiers to a 'meat grinder'. Obviously in W40K, such hesitations are conspicuously absent :eek:k:
 

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Ah..but with the invention of the Tank, came the Anti-Tank Mine, and the Anti-Tank Weapon. With the invention of the Bomber came Anti-Aircraft Technology. Trenches are, by their design, able to counter the effects of conventional HE artillery.
Well... HE PD and delay... not so much with TI and VT :p
 

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At least in the heresy novels like A Thousand Son the anti aircraft weapons were too many and to powerful to do an assault of Prospero so they relied on infantry.

Its like today. Many people just don't get the fact that mobile infantry will still and always be the biggest part of the military. Firstly, aircraft can only stay in the air so long, and secondly the amount of expenses and resources to get those things in the air makes it a limited source in military warfare.
 

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LIKE DUDE TOTALLY we have Stealth fighters and Laser Weapons today. What do we even need the army for?

It's a way of fighting. A couple of mates of mine are in Norway now, but the war is in the Stan. Why? Because it could be needed.

As to Fuel Air Bombs - sucking the air out of the lungs obviously won't cause inhalation burns destroying the person from the inside out, but I'm willing to bet a half tonne of a Fuel Air Bomb has a) enough air, b) enough air, and c) enough spark to burn an area roughly the size of Wembley's turf.

On the other hand - look at the Insurgents in Afghanistan - they've taking down SO pilots in MH6s and MH60L DAP's with weaponry 40 years out of date.

On the other hand, are you Nick Clegg?



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Well... HE PD and delay... not so much with TI and VT :p
I'm sorry, my abbreviation cogitators are struggling under a choloric machine spirit - where is that damn Tech-Priest?! :scratchhead:
 

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LIKE DUDE TOTALLY we have Stealth fighters and Laser Weapons today. What do we even need the army for?
Nothing against you, but you brought up a good point. We have a whole bunch of super technology, that we know about. Who knows what is top secret right now and we have no idea what it is/does.

But we will always need grunts. It doesn't matter how much you bomb, nuke and rape a country. You need guys to run in and stick a flag in the ground and say "This is ours now." Then stay there to ensure no one else come in and tries to take your new territory over.
 

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But we will always need grunts. It doesn't matter how much you bomb, nuke and rape a country. You need guys to run in and stick a flag in the ground and say "This is ours now." Then stay there to ensure no one else come in and tries to take your new territory over.
That's fuckin'n well said.

Besides, without footmen, there'd be no ppl like Jack Churchill!
 

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I'm sorry, my abbreviation cogitators are struggling under a choloric machine spirit - where is that damn Tech-Priest?!
TI = timed fuses that are set to 'theoretically' detonate 20m above the target. Problem is they have to be set manually and are therefore prone to error.

VT = variable time fuses that are set to detonate 7m above the target, which, for 105mm and 155mm artillery rounds, provides for the greatest kill-radius, and also peppers steel rain down on any unfortunate troops hiding in a trench.

Nothing against you, but you brought up a good point. We have a whole bunch of super technology, that we know about. Who knows what is top secret right now and we have no idea what it is/does.

But we will always need grunts.
This is quite true, HOWEVER just because we have all this high-speed shit doesn't mean anyone actually uses it. It costs incredible amounts of money to mass-produce anything, and since military contracts are sold to the lowest bidder, much of it is absolute shit and requires constant maintenance, therefore resulting in even more money lost. Not to mention, soldiers/airmen/whoever have a very bad habit of breaking anything and everything they can get their hands on. So despite the fact that we've got all sorts of incredibly advanced systems, rarely are they deployed with any real effect.

As far as the second part of your statement, I entirely agree. Air power and naval power only go so far. Once you bomb an army into oblivion, soldiers on the ground have to move in and claim the territory, establishing the theoretical line of 'we control this.' At least in conventional warfare, where there is a fairly solid delineation between friendly and hostile troops.
 

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LIKE DUDE TOTALLY we have Stealth fighters and Laser Weapons today. What do we even need the army for?
I'll assume sarcasm based on:
1:you mean like the stealth fighters america is addicted to that british radar can pick up :biggrin:
2:and the GIANT lasers mounted in 747's that in simulations can shoot missiles from the sky.....and nothing much else.

I don't really see DK as having no place, siege warfare is still around in modern day armies, you just have to look.

for instance just look at the forces in iraq, when we take important ground we build base camps that look like small forts that provide artillery support and a defensive position, just like castles back in medieval sieges.

troops still dig into mountain sides and construct trenches just like WWI and long before.

breaking a siege with ships or aircraft is not always possible or viable, usually when you fight a siege you want to capture the ground so you can make use of it afterwards or limit collateral damage, the Navy today and in the future cannot always do this, or are simply not capable, just look at Iwo Jima as the perfect example of a modern siege where air and fleet firepower was utterly and completely useless and still required men on the ground to get the job finished.

War never changes and never will change, even when troops are running around with powered armour suits and laser rifles and hover tanks, men will still dig trenches and build there little castles, no matter how they may of evolved.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I'll assume sarcasm based on:
1:you mean like the stealth fighters america is addicted to that british radar can pick up :biggrin:
2:and the GIANT lasers mounted in 747's that in simulations can shoot missiles from the sky.....and nothing much else.
#1: stealth fighters aren’t suppose to completely avoid radar, simply make it so conventional radar can not detect and track effectively.
#2: In theory, it can be used against aircraft and low flying sats.

P.S. The fact you brits may be able to detect the fighters is irrelevant since we would never fight you..... and if we did we wouldn't need stealth fighters to kick the living shit out of your airforce.:wink: (Kidding)

But anyway, siege is still useful.
 
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