Right ok.
The Talos has an Impressive T7 and 3 wounds and is protected by a good 3+ save. It's a meer 100 points. Those are all good things.
Now, it has a Random number of attacks, so it will either slaughter a whole unit of terminators, or it'll kill a guardsmen.
Why would you choose that over paying 15 more points, and you get a reliable, fast and most importantly, accurate vehicle that is caperble of bringdown any tank ingame or causing a huge dent on a MCs wound reserve? Pay 15 more points and you get a fast vehicle with 3 plasma cannons.
It's a no brainer. Ravagers are just 'too good' in comparison to the rest of the heavy support choices avaliable to the DE.
Jetbikes are another story. I run them at bigger games, 2k +.
They do all the things you said they did and more. Tool the Succubus up with a Punisher and you have a model with Initiative 6 and 3-4 str5 power weapon hits, not including the drug bonuses. Give him an Agoniser, and go MC hunting.
Give the 2 special weapon slots to Blasters, and you have a unit that can destroy tanks, harm MCs, blast bunkers etc etc. All for a reasonable cost. Bikes must come in units of 5 minimum however, IMO.
Webway bomb armies are very obvious from the get go. DE armies suffer from 'if you're going to do it this way, don't cut back'. Meaning that a webway bomb army MUST have 3 talos. It won't hit hard enough if you don't.
Your opponent will see this from your list and do everything to neuter your webway carrier. A lord with a shadow field is the safest carrier, but, your putting to much responsiblity on him. He doesn't do well being hit by 40 odd boltguns.
Talos have also suffered from the recent price drop, thus, increase in volume of both Missile and melta weaponry. Unlike Wraithlords who are only hurt 50% of the time, your hurt on 66% of the time. A unit has to slam a couple of missile into you then have an Attack bike or assault squad fry you with a melta weapon.
The Ravager is, imo, the most powerful unit ingame right now. Hideously under priced for it's insane damage output.
It's closest competitor is the Railhead, and to make one of those any good, you're looking at 160 points plus invested. Thats at least 50 more than the Ravager.
The Ravagers high damage output, cost efficiency, reliability and most importantly, diversity make it to good not to take.
For 345 points you get 3 Vehicles that will send a shudder through your opponents spine as he realises you can vaporise his tanks quicker than he can contemplate.
A Ravager with Dizzys means no TEQ or MEQ is safe, at all. Something that not many other units can claim to do.
Raider squads are just to versitile and reliable too. Although, like all DE units, paper thin, they have a low enough points cost to not be to worried about.
A 10 man raider squad with a blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite with Poisoned blades and a raider costs less than 170 points. For that you get an Accurate unit that can either mow down infantry, bag a couple of TEQs or blast any tank to hell.
The only unit that can compete with this reliablity is the good old Sniper squad. 2 Dark lances, 10 men all for 100 points. Bargain.
It's odd how despite GW fucking up other armies, DE have remained with only one flaw, and thats them being out of date.
The codex isn't designed for the more intricate play of 5th ed. So most of their rules and units cut through the fancy rule book like a hot knife through butter.
5th Ed pushed a massive need to be Mech'd up and melta'd up. DE had NO CHOICE other than to be in raiders and carry lance weaponry, as if they weren't, you had no chance to win. So DE players have found themselves with armies that seem to withstand the test of time. As no matter what curveball GW throws, DE come out unmolestered.
Even overpowered (I hate the word tbh) armies like Space wolves have no hope against a dice favoured, well experienced DE player. As the current codex, unlike every other codex, says implicitly 'TAKE THIS KIND OF ARMY OTHERWISE YOU'RE FUCKED'.
Everyone says that DE have a steep learning curve, and it's true. The learning curve is that you need to find the 'Raider spam' army out for yourself, learn to use it properly and then you can't lose. As it's an army that will maul an opponent so badly that it'll be impossible for them to come out with any major advantage.
I've been playing DE since they first came back, 1997/8 is I believe. And I picked up my raider army within a year of playing with them. So I've seen several new Rulebook editions and haven't had to change my tactics once.
Even with the new emphasis on objectives, I always took 4-6 troop choices anyway...so not really a problem.
It'll be really interesting to see what GW do to the new codex. Hopefully add some varity to my one stringed bow of an army. I stopped playing with the DE simply because I had one tactic that pretty much garnered me a win. And you know you've won as you get to turn 3 and your opponent is at his own board edge with no tanks left at all.
Finished now
The Talos has an Impressive T7 and 3 wounds and is protected by a good 3+ save. It's a meer 100 points. Those are all good things.
Now, it has a Random number of attacks, so it will either slaughter a whole unit of terminators, or it'll kill a guardsmen.
Why would you choose that over paying 15 more points, and you get a reliable, fast and most importantly, accurate vehicle that is caperble of bringdown any tank ingame or causing a huge dent on a MCs wound reserve? Pay 15 more points and you get a fast vehicle with 3 plasma cannons.
It's a no brainer. Ravagers are just 'too good' in comparison to the rest of the heavy support choices avaliable to the DE.
Jetbikes are another story. I run them at bigger games, 2k +.
They do all the things you said they did and more. Tool the Succubus up with a Punisher and you have a model with Initiative 6 and 3-4 str5 power weapon hits, not including the drug bonuses. Give him an Agoniser, and go MC hunting.
Give the 2 special weapon slots to Blasters, and you have a unit that can destroy tanks, harm MCs, blast bunkers etc etc. All for a reasonable cost. Bikes must come in units of 5 minimum however, IMO.
Webway bomb armies are very obvious from the get go. DE armies suffer from 'if you're going to do it this way, don't cut back'. Meaning that a webway bomb army MUST have 3 talos. It won't hit hard enough if you don't.
Your opponent will see this from your list and do everything to neuter your webway carrier. A lord with a shadow field is the safest carrier, but, your putting to much responsiblity on him. He doesn't do well being hit by 40 odd boltguns.
Talos have also suffered from the recent price drop, thus, increase in volume of both Missile and melta weaponry. Unlike Wraithlords who are only hurt 50% of the time, your hurt on 66% of the time. A unit has to slam a couple of missile into you then have an Attack bike or assault squad fry you with a melta weapon.
The Ravager is, imo, the most powerful unit ingame right now. Hideously under priced for it's insane damage output.
It's closest competitor is the Railhead, and to make one of those any good, you're looking at 160 points plus invested. Thats at least 50 more than the Ravager.
The Ravagers high damage output, cost efficiency, reliability and most importantly, diversity make it to good not to take.
For 345 points you get 3 Vehicles that will send a shudder through your opponents spine as he realises you can vaporise his tanks quicker than he can contemplate.
A Ravager with Dizzys means no TEQ or MEQ is safe, at all. Something that not many other units can claim to do.
Raider squads are just to versitile and reliable too. Although, like all DE units, paper thin, they have a low enough points cost to not be to worried about.
A 10 man raider squad with a blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite with Poisoned blades and a raider costs less than 170 points. For that you get an Accurate unit that can either mow down infantry, bag a couple of TEQs or blast any tank to hell.
The only unit that can compete with this reliablity is the good old Sniper squad. 2 Dark lances, 10 men all for 100 points. Bargain.
It's odd how despite GW fucking up other armies, DE have remained with only one flaw, and thats them being out of date.
The codex isn't designed for the more intricate play of 5th ed. So most of their rules and units cut through the fancy rule book like a hot knife through butter.
5th Ed pushed a massive need to be Mech'd up and melta'd up. DE had NO CHOICE other than to be in raiders and carry lance weaponry, as if they weren't, you had no chance to win. So DE players have found themselves with armies that seem to withstand the test of time. As no matter what curveball GW throws, DE come out unmolestered.
Even overpowered (I hate the word tbh) armies like Space wolves have no hope against a dice favoured, well experienced DE player. As the current codex, unlike every other codex, says implicitly 'TAKE THIS KIND OF ARMY OTHERWISE YOU'RE FUCKED'.
Everyone says that DE have a steep learning curve, and it's true. The learning curve is that you need to find the 'Raider spam' army out for yourself, learn to use it properly and then you can't lose. As it's an army that will maul an opponent so badly that it'll be impossible for them to come out with any major advantage.
I've been playing DE since they first came back, 1997/8 is I believe. And I picked up my raider army within a year of playing with them. So I've seen several new Rulebook editions and haven't had to change my tactics once.
Even with the new emphasis on objectives, I always took 4-6 troop choices anyway...so not really a problem.
It'll be really interesting to see what GW do to the new codex. Hopefully add some varity to my one stringed bow of an army. I stopped playing with the DE simply because I had one tactic that pretty much garnered me a win. And you know you've won as you get to turn 3 and your opponent is at his own board edge with no tanks left at all.
Finished now
