I didn't want to take up a serious part in this, and I was just throwing ideas in, and might continue to do so. We'll need someone else to work on the Talon Guard (possibly giving them a better name).
[Dark Talon]Dark Talon special units
While people are hopefully creating some nice characters for the Dark Talons, I thought it would be good to open up this thread for you to give your suggestions for specialised units for the Dark Talon codex or even just slightly altered current model rules. Try to keep all suggestions helpful and on topic, and also inkeeping with the Dark Talons. We also need to think about what sort of units they would be using (e.g-unlikely to have Obliterators as they are a new warbnd with little to offer the Obliterators, May still have some Landspeeders,etc..)
I will try to come up with a few ideas myself, and I will try to stay on top of what is going on in here, offer advice on other peoples ideas etc...I realise that there was another thread like this already but it has become very cluttered over time, so I felt a new one would be needed. This is the next section to be sorted out after the Characters have been voted on.
I will try to come up with a few ideas myself, and I will try to stay on top of what is going on in here, offer advice on other peoples ideas etc...I realise that there was another thread like this already but it has become very cluttered over time, so I felt a new one would be needed. This is the next section to be sorted out after the Characters have been voted on.
41 - 60 of 68 Posts
Lets take away the Outcast marines. I re-read the sticky and well there wouldn't be enough mutations in the Dark Talons to have full on squads of marines with the same mutations. At best you would have 5 marines with mutations and more then like each one would have a different mutation.
Well I going through certain things because Zond is on some adventure and one of the items on the to do list for me is ironing out the Talon Guard unit.
Now the thing is there are three head honchos in the Dark Talons and they are
#1) Master Retrave=Chaos Lord & special character
#2) Kilm Vanshal=Chaos Lord and Special Character
#3) Reclusiarch Tanthus=Chaos Sorcerer
Now Tanthus is just a standard chaos sorcerer he does not have any special rules.
All other forms of HQ are lesser ranked lieutenants and aspiring sorcerers.
I am not making any of this up this is established fluff in the sticky.
Now the top three have two personal aids who are lieutenants there is no mention of a any honour guard; however there are bits about command squads.
So the Talon guard would actually be a command squad not necessarily like the command squads of the space marines; but command squads.
So the Talon Guard would actually be a command squad but those that made up the squad would have been handpicked from the finest of warriors so here are my thoughts on the Talon Guard by Thomas2
Up to 2 Dark Talons may replace their Bolter or Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol, Twin-linked Bolter or a Combi-Weapon.(they got bolters so might as well just give them some specialty ranged weapons)
Any Dark Talon may replace Power Weapon with a single Lightning Claw for 10 pts or a Powerfist for 15 pts.
One Dark Talon may be given an Icon for 10 pts
Ok how does that sound ?
Now the thing is there are three head honchos in the Dark Talons and they are
#1) Master Retrave=Chaos Lord & special character
#2) Kilm Vanshal=Chaos Lord and Special Character
#3) Reclusiarch Tanthus=Chaos Sorcerer
Now Tanthus is just a standard chaos sorcerer he does not have any special rules.
All other forms of HQ are lesser ranked lieutenants and aspiring sorcerers.
I am not making any of this up this is established fluff in the sticky.
Now the top three have two personal aids who are lieutenants there is no mention of a any honour guard; however there are bits about command squads.
So the Talon guard would actually be a command squad not necessarily like the command squads of the space marines; but command squads.
So the Talon Guard would actually be a command squad but those that made up the squad would have been handpicked from the finest of warriors so here are my thoughts on the Talon Guard by Thomas2
Zond wasn't really fond of the name and I don't particularly like it either. So perhaps we should call the squad Dark Talon Retinue and just keep it simple.TALON GUARD
I like their stat line because well these guys are the best right; but the points should be brought down to 30 pts and they should just start off with power weapons(Try not to think Talon=Lightning Claws). So if they start off with power weapons their options would go more like this.Talon Guard...40 pts
WS-5, BS-4, S-4, T-4, W-1, I-4, A-2, Ld-10, Sv-3+
Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Comp: 4-9 Talon guards
Wargear: Power Armour, Lightning claw, Bolt pistol, Bolter, Frag & Krak Grenades.
Up to 2 Dark Talons may replace their Bolter or Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol, Twin-linked Bolter or a Combi-Weapon.(they got bolters so might as well just give them some specialty ranged weapons)
Any Dark Talon may replace Power Weapon with a single Lightning Claw for 10 pts or a Powerfist for 15 pts.
One Dark Talon may be given an Icon for 10 pts
Sounds like its a bit too much you already have to chew through most of the squad if you wanna get to the character anyways. I suggest that the retinue be given counter attack and may still use the counter attack ability even if the character doesn't have it.Special Rules:
Loyal - Any talon guard must be prepared to give up their lives to take this position so up to two wounds can be allocated per Talon Guard before any are allocated to the attached character.
Ok how does that sound ?
Ok so no ones responded or posted lately on this so I thought I would post some notes concerning the organization of the Dark Talons
First I will quote from the sticky "History of the Dark Talons"
- Organization -
The war band of the Dark Talons currently numbers approximately four hundred marines and due to its comparatively small nature to other forces in the area the Dark Talons generally fights as a whole (the Blood Pact alone is estimated at ¾ of a million strong). Their numbers are however slowly growing due to the ‘helpful’ interest of Fabius Bile; drawn possibly due to the strange mixed nature of the salvaged gene-seed of the Renegade Chapter (see further addendum).
The Chapter is ruled over by Master Retrave and Reclusiarch Tanthus and “Kilm Vanshal” (a former Chaplain of the Chapter, now possessed by a Daemon of an unknown name and allegiance). Other than the top three leaders who have two lieutenants acting as their aids there is very little in the way of a structured hierarchy between the council and squad level. In addition the title of lieutenant is purely honorific as the position gives very little in the way of extra power that an aspiring champion doesn’t already have.
Based off this I have gathered some notes and thought up how I think the organized structure of the Dark Talons would be.
My Notes
With about 400 Dark Talons and climbing I figure that with these small numbers the Dark Talons structure might look something like this.
HIERARCHY - The commanders of the Dark Talons are probably about 10-20 with Master Retrave and Kilm Vanshal being the only chaos lords and Reclusiarch Tanthus would be the Dark Talons most powerful Sorcerer. The rest would be lieutenants and some lower ranked aspiring sorcerers of some kind and then the command squads would be handpicked from the rest the Dark Talons.
Master Retrave - Master and Commander of the Dark Talons, his word is law.
Reclusiarch Tanthus - Sorcerer- The title reclusiarch is recognized from the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes; but as a chaplain. The definition of Reclusiarch is someone who makes all efforts possible to remain alone or with minimal companionship. Now that doesn’t sound like a chaplain at all; but it is perfect for a sorcerer most sorcerers prefer to be alone and learn the secrets of the universe so why not. And in the current Space Marine codex the rank reclusiarch doesn’t even exist anymore.
Kilm Vanshal - Chaos Tactician, former chaplain who is possessed by a daemonic entity with an unknown name. Vanshal appears to have no particular allegiance to any of the four chaos gods.
-Lieutenants-Powerful fighters in their own right and have earned their respected positions within the Dark Talons.
Armendeculus - the Swordsman-Was personally trained by the Val Gaur and is known as Arm for short. Arm would be the highest ranking of the lieutenants he even only has two wounds to show for it.
For some of the Dark Talons lieutenants and sorcerers I took characters from the character polls and gave them positions that were somewhat relative to their creators fluff or I was just trying to fulfill certain positions.
Torturer Issatroth-Trained by Fabius Bile in genetics, Issatroth is responsible for maintaining the multiple gene-seeds that makes up the Dark Talons. Issatroth is also responsible for developing the many implants that are developed for creating space marines. On his own time Issatroth experiments on hundreds of many victims with his many theories on gene manipulation.
Lieutenant Gallo–Oversees the violent and dangerous training of the Dark Talons recruits, Gallos Taskmasters were handpicked from the most vicious and unforgiving of the Dark Talons.
Lieutenant Ligarius–Personal aid to Master Retrave, Ligarius knows many secrets from his days with the Inquisition as a member of the Deathwatch.
Lieutenant Dazhain-Personal aid to Master Retrave, Dazhain is Warmaster of the Dark Talons fleet as he commands from the battleship Betrayers Torment.
Lieutenant Yeremos–Personal aid to Reclusiarch Tanthus, Yeremos is an aspiring sorcerer and an apprentice.
Lieutenant Kartherus–Personal aid to Reclusiarch Tanthus, Kartherus researches daemonic icons and talismans, going through stolen records and scriptures, he watches over the library vault.
Lieutenant Hezek–Personal aid to Kilm Vanshal, Hezek was the first to be strongly influenced by Kilm Vanshals and give his complete and utter devotion.
Lieutenant Garius–Personal aid to Kilm Vanshal, Garius was found by Kilm wondering Kabal III after being abandoned by his own battle brethren and was consumed by despair and insanity.
Lieutenant Vorg–Formally of the Iron Hands Vorg is the Dark Talons techmaster he watches over and ensures the Dark Talons armoured might is in top condition.
There would probably be about 7 other Lieutenants/Sorcerers
*VETERANS-There are probably about 80 that would be considered the veterans of the Dark Talons
-Chosen unit comp: 5-10
-Ravagers unit comp: 5-10
-Terminators-Maybe about 1/4 of the Veterans are Terminators, such armour would be rare and so their unit comp is probably 3-5 and may only have one Terminator Champion.
MARINES-Probably about 300 different marines with all squads not being able to field the numbers that other chaos marines can their unit comp are most likely going to be 5-10 marines strong so that the Dark Talons can stay more flexible. Such squads would be the following
-Talon Command Squads
-Marines
-Assault Marines- I went with Assault Squads because Raptors are a cult from the Eye of Terror - One squad may be upgraded with Coloth the BoneCrusher
-Bikers- might be a little rarer; squad size would probably be 3-5 with the option of an attack bike
-Havocs-One squad may be upgraded with Havoc Champion Karm Vestatus
-vehicle crewmen
OTHER- These would be the new marines the Dark Talons would have acquired after going out on their own and starting to recruit again and manipulating the multiple gene-seeds using the teachings of Fabius Bile. So there are probably about 50 of them with most being the Savage Wolves and many probably wouldn’t survive the recruiting process of the Dark Talons.
-Recruits- Probably a unit comp of 5-10 including the TaskMaster
-Savage Wolves- The few space wolves that had joined the Dark Talons had been experimented on by Fabius Bile and their strength was greatly increased. Fabius Bile even introduced their genetic structure into some of the Dark Talons new recruits and many had died. Master Retrave had Bile leave the Dark Talons only sparing his life for the knowledge that was needed for recruitment. The Savage Wolves would be rare and so there might only be one or two squads of 5-10; but Issatroth has the knowledge to make more of them.
The following is taken from the sticky "History of the Dark Talons"
*VEHICLES
It has only been since Kabal III and the Val-Gaur’s betrayal that the Chapter has begun to use vehicles in any great number. This was due to the Dark Talons not having any particular need for them before. While under the Blood Pact command they left all the heavy armor to the Blood Pact Tank Divisions. However now, due to their new autonomy, they have been forced to re-supply through piracy and raiding of the depots and forge worlds of the Imperium.
With this I figure the Dark Talons would do a fast hit and run attack, taking what they can in a hurry.
DREADNOUGHTS– Would be extremely rare most likely the armored shell was stolen or recovered and may have been rebuilt so there would be 1-3 at the most.
VEHICLES - 30-50 including the following
-Rhinos
-Predators
-Vindicators
Land Raiders would more than likely be just a little too rare for the Dark Talons and they don't have the know how to build daemonic war engines like the Defiler so those two units would be out of the question.
ASSAULT CRAFT – Unknown amount I figure about 40 landing ships and lots of drop pods
-Drop Pods-because the Dark Talons have 2 Strike Cruisers
-Thunder Hawks-maybe just a few; but very doubtful
-Stolen Imperial Assault Boats- more than likely
Well I got more notes I can share but there really is no need.
First I will quote from the sticky "History of the Dark Talons"
- Organization -
The war band of the Dark Talons currently numbers approximately four hundred marines and due to its comparatively small nature to other forces in the area the Dark Talons generally fights as a whole (the Blood Pact alone is estimated at ¾ of a million strong). Their numbers are however slowly growing due to the ‘helpful’ interest of Fabius Bile; drawn possibly due to the strange mixed nature of the salvaged gene-seed of the Renegade Chapter (see further addendum).
The Chapter is ruled over by Master Retrave and Reclusiarch Tanthus and “Kilm Vanshal” (a former Chaplain of the Chapter, now possessed by a Daemon of an unknown name and allegiance). Other than the top three leaders who have two lieutenants acting as their aids there is very little in the way of a structured hierarchy between the council and squad level. In addition the title of lieutenant is purely honorific as the position gives very little in the way of extra power that an aspiring champion doesn’t already have.
Based off this I have gathered some notes and thought up how I think the organized structure of the Dark Talons would be.
My Notes
With about 400 Dark Talons and climbing I figure that with these small numbers the Dark Talons structure might look something like this.
HIERARCHY - The commanders of the Dark Talons are probably about 10-20 with Master Retrave and Kilm Vanshal being the only chaos lords and Reclusiarch Tanthus would be the Dark Talons most powerful Sorcerer. The rest would be lieutenants and some lower ranked aspiring sorcerers of some kind and then the command squads would be handpicked from the rest the Dark Talons.
Master Retrave - Master and Commander of the Dark Talons, his word is law.
Reclusiarch Tanthus - Sorcerer- The title reclusiarch is recognized from the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes; but as a chaplain. The definition of Reclusiarch is someone who makes all efforts possible to remain alone or with minimal companionship. Now that doesn’t sound like a chaplain at all; but it is perfect for a sorcerer most sorcerers prefer to be alone and learn the secrets of the universe so why not. And in the current Space Marine codex the rank reclusiarch doesn’t even exist anymore.
Kilm Vanshal - Chaos Tactician, former chaplain who is possessed by a daemonic entity with an unknown name. Vanshal appears to have no particular allegiance to any of the four chaos gods.
-Lieutenants-Powerful fighters in their own right and have earned their respected positions within the Dark Talons.
Armendeculus - the Swordsman-Was personally trained by the Val Gaur and is known as Arm for short. Arm would be the highest ranking of the lieutenants he even only has two wounds to show for it.
For some of the Dark Talons lieutenants and sorcerers I took characters from the character polls and gave them positions that were somewhat relative to their creators fluff or I was just trying to fulfill certain positions.
Torturer Issatroth-Trained by Fabius Bile in genetics, Issatroth is responsible for maintaining the multiple gene-seeds that makes up the Dark Talons. Issatroth is also responsible for developing the many implants that are developed for creating space marines. On his own time Issatroth experiments on hundreds of many victims with his many theories on gene manipulation.
Lieutenant Gallo–Oversees the violent and dangerous training of the Dark Talons recruits, Gallos Taskmasters were handpicked from the most vicious and unforgiving of the Dark Talons.
Lieutenant Ligarius–Personal aid to Master Retrave, Ligarius knows many secrets from his days with the Inquisition as a member of the Deathwatch.
Lieutenant Dazhain-Personal aid to Master Retrave, Dazhain is Warmaster of the Dark Talons fleet as he commands from the battleship Betrayers Torment.
Lieutenant Yeremos–Personal aid to Reclusiarch Tanthus, Yeremos is an aspiring sorcerer and an apprentice.
Lieutenant Kartherus–Personal aid to Reclusiarch Tanthus, Kartherus researches daemonic icons and talismans, going through stolen records and scriptures, he watches over the library vault.
Lieutenant Hezek–Personal aid to Kilm Vanshal, Hezek was the first to be strongly influenced by Kilm Vanshals and give his complete and utter devotion.
Lieutenant Garius–Personal aid to Kilm Vanshal, Garius was found by Kilm wondering Kabal III after being abandoned by his own battle brethren and was consumed by despair and insanity.
Lieutenant Vorg–Formally of the Iron Hands Vorg is the Dark Talons techmaster he watches over and ensures the Dark Talons armoured might is in top condition.
There would probably be about 7 other Lieutenants/Sorcerers
*VETERANS-There are probably about 80 that would be considered the veterans of the Dark Talons
-Chosen unit comp: 5-10
-Ravagers unit comp: 5-10
-Terminators-Maybe about 1/4 of the Veterans are Terminators, such armour would be rare and so their unit comp is probably 3-5 and may only have one Terminator Champion.
MARINES-Probably about 300 different marines with all squads not being able to field the numbers that other chaos marines can their unit comp are most likely going to be 5-10 marines strong so that the Dark Talons can stay more flexible. Such squads would be the following
-Talon Command Squads
-Marines
-Assault Marines- I went with Assault Squads because Raptors are a cult from the Eye of Terror - One squad may be upgraded with Coloth the BoneCrusher
-Bikers- might be a little rarer; squad size would probably be 3-5 with the option of an attack bike
-Havocs-One squad may be upgraded with Havoc Champion Karm Vestatus
-vehicle crewmen
OTHER- These would be the new marines the Dark Talons would have acquired after going out on their own and starting to recruit again and manipulating the multiple gene-seeds using the teachings of Fabius Bile. So there are probably about 50 of them with most being the Savage Wolves and many probably wouldn’t survive the recruiting process of the Dark Talons.
-Recruits- Probably a unit comp of 5-10 including the TaskMaster
-Savage Wolves- The few space wolves that had joined the Dark Talons had been experimented on by Fabius Bile and their strength was greatly increased. Fabius Bile even introduced their genetic structure into some of the Dark Talons new recruits and many had died. Master Retrave had Bile leave the Dark Talons only sparing his life for the knowledge that was needed for recruitment. The Savage Wolves would be rare and so there might only be one or two squads of 5-10; but Issatroth has the knowledge to make more of them.
The following is taken from the sticky "History of the Dark Talons"
*VEHICLES
It has only been since Kabal III and the Val-Gaur’s betrayal that the Chapter has begun to use vehicles in any great number. This was due to the Dark Talons not having any particular need for them before. While under the Blood Pact command they left all the heavy armor to the Blood Pact Tank Divisions. However now, due to their new autonomy, they have been forced to re-supply through piracy and raiding of the depots and forge worlds of the Imperium.
With this I figure the Dark Talons would do a fast hit and run attack, taking what they can in a hurry.
DREADNOUGHTS– Would be extremely rare most likely the armored shell was stolen or recovered and may have been rebuilt so there would be 1-3 at the most.
VEHICLES - 30-50 including the following
-Rhinos
-Predators
-Vindicators
Land Raiders would more than likely be just a little too rare for the Dark Talons and they don't have the know how to build daemonic war engines like the Defiler so those two units would be out of the question.
ASSAULT CRAFT – Unknown amount I figure about 40 landing ships and lots of drop pods
-Drop Pods-because the Dark Talons have 2 Strike Cruisers
-Thunder Hawks-maybe just a few; but very doubtful
-Stolen Imperial Assault Boats- more than likely
Well I got more notes I can share but there really is no need.
wow Good work Imntdead
Edit: Have some Rep for the hard work
Edit: Have some Rep for the hard work
Thanks DA I just hope others approve :victory:wow Good work Imntdead
As the talon guard are a retinue and therefore a body guard for the lords, could they be called maybe the 'Shadow of Talon' in that they follow and protect the lord strking fear into wherever they go. Or maybe the Court of Talon to represent a lord's own guard.
I havent been doing stuff for the dark talons so dont expect this to be great but would it be a good idea to organise the dark talons like the Space Wolves . maybe there could be certain units with abilities . thanks
For assault troops - as there are (mostly) recently turned Space Marines maybe the answer is just to convert normal assault marines? Also cheaper and more convertible than raptor models (i have done this for my IW army and it works really well).
Maybe there could be a specialized Daemon Prince that employs the colour scheme as skin or armour and has the chapter/warband symbol carved into it's skull.
for assault troops, I say jump pack troops all with lightning claws, the talon's talon's, so to speak!
Well this is the finalised list so far.
Headquarters
Chaos Lord- Same sort of thing as in the Codex:CSM, has access to all marks and can carry daemon weapons. However cannot make use of daemonic steeds (possibility for an exception is creating an undivided steed). Is the only unit in the army that can use the Talon weapon.
Chaos Sorcerer- Similar sort of thing to the Lord, again no steed, can make use of any Mark. No talon, sorcerers need the force weapon.
Talon Guard (possible a better name could be chosen)- Due to the elite nature of the Dark Talons I feel that a chaos honour guard might be a good idea. Protecting the Lord and Sorcerers, especially those bearing the Talon weapon. Needs some rules designed.
Elites
Dark Talon Chosen- basically same as the CSM entry, significantly powerful enough to be allowed to discreetly follow a specific god, allowed Icons.
Dark Talon Terminators-Again all options from CSM dex, allowed marks, no land raider
Dark Talon dreadnought-same as CSM dex.
Dark Talon Wolves- homebrew unit (imntdead and zondarian, page 3, post 27)
Mutant Marines- homebrew unit (imntdead, page 4, post 32)
Troops
Dark talon Marines- same as CSM dex entry, no icons allowed
Dark Talon Initiates- Homebrew unit of my design, no major disapprovals and some people liked. (pg2 of this thread, post 14)
Transport
Dark Talon Rhino- same as CSM dex
Dark Talon Droppod
Fast attack
Chaos Bikers- Not sure about the icon, can make use of the attack bike.
Chaos raptors- once again not sure about the mark, other than that standard issue CSM dex.
Dark Talon Ravager- Homebrew unit designed by imntdead. In the past many people have clamoured for the Talons to have an elite raptor unit. This may be due to misinterperation of the chapter name, but it was popular, so it should really be in. (this thread, page 1, post 3) Possibly needs improving, the points look a little off and it lacks options, very specialised unit.
Dark talon Hounds- To appeal to the slightly brutal side of the Talons and make up for small umbers I suggested a Chaos Hound style uit. No major opposition. (this thread, page 1, post7, lower half of the post)
Heavy Support
Dark Talon Havocs- Again same as CSM dex, again icon allowence questionable.
Dark talon Predator-Again same as CSM dex.
Dark talon vindicator- Again same as CSM dex.
Summoned Daemons
Summoned lesser daemons- background makes it clear that lesser daemons are used as fodder
I am going to suggest that the Ravagers need their rules expanding to allow a more versatile role, basically some more weapon choices, and the Talon Guard could be made a bit more Kilm Vanshal goons in feel.
Ok so no ones responded or posted lately on this so I thought I would post some notes concerning the organization of the Dark Talons
First I will quote from the sticky "History of the Dark Talons"
- Organization -
The war band of the Dark Talons currently numbers approximately four hundred marines and due to its comparatively small nature to other forces in the area the Dark Talons generally fights as a whole (the Blood Pact alone is estimated at ¾ of a million strong). Their numbers are however slowly growing due to the ‘helpful’ interest of Fabius Bile; drawn possibly due to the strange mixed nature of the salvaged gene-seed of the Renegade Chapter (see further addendum).
The Chapter is ruled over by Master Retrave and Reclusiarch Tanthus and “Kilm Vanshal” (a former Chaplain of the Chapter, now possessed by a Daemon of an unknown name and allegiance). Other than the top three leaders who have two lieutenants acting as their aids there is very little in the way of a structured hierarchy between the council and squad level. In addition the title of lieutenant is purely honorific as the position gives very little in the way of extra power that an aspiring champion doesn’t already have.
Based off this I have gathered some notes and thought up how I think the organized structure of the Dark Talons would be.
My Notes
With about 400 Dark Talons and climbing I figure that with these small numbers the Dark Talons structure might look something like this.
HIERARCHY - The commanders of the Dark Talons are probably about 10-20 with Master Retrave and Kilm Vanshal being the only chaos lords and Reclusiarch Tanthus would be the Dark Talons most powerful Sorcerer. The rest would be lieutenants and some lower ranked aspiring sorcerers of some kind and then the command squads would be handpicked from the rest the Dark Talons.
Master Retrave - Master and Commander of the Dark Talons, his word is law.
Reclusiarch Tanthus - Sorcerer- The title reclusiarch is recognized from the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes; but as a chaplain. The definition of Reclusiarch is someone who makes all efforts possible to remain alone or with minimal companionship. Now that doesn’t sound like a chaplain at all; but it is perfect for a sorcerer most sorcerers prefer to be alone and learn the secrets of the universe so why not. And in the current Space Marine codex the rank reclusiarch doesn’t even exist anymore.
Kilm Vanshal - Chaos Tactician, former chaplain who is possessed by a daemonic entity with an unknown name. Vanshal appears to have no particular allegiance to any of the four chaos gods.
-Lieutenants-Powerful fighters in their own right and have earned their respected positions within the Dark Talons.
Armendeculus - the Swordsman-Was personally trained by the Val Gaur and is known as Arm for short. Arm would be the highest ranking of the lieutenants he even only has two wounds to show for it.
For some of the Dark Talons lieutenants and sorcerers I took characters from the character polls and gave them positions that were somewhat relative to their creators fluff or I was just trying to fulfill certain positions.
Torturer Issatroth-Trained by Fabius Bile in genetics, Issatroth is responsible for maintaining the multiple gene-seeds that makes up the Dark Talons. Issatroth is also responsible for developing the many implants that are developed for creating space marines. On his own time Issatroth experiments on hundreds of many victims with his many theories on gene manipulation.
Lieutenant Gallo–Oversees the violent and dangerous training of the Dark Talons recruits, Gallos Taskmasters were handpicked from the most vicious and unforgiving of the Dark Talons.
Lieutenant Ligarius–Personal aid to Master Retrave, Ligarius knows many secrets from his days with the Inquisition as a member of the Deathwatch.
Lieutenant Dazhain-Personal aid to Master Retrave, Dazhain is Warmaster of the Dark Talons fleet as he commands from the battleship Betrayers Torment.
Lieutenant Yeremos–Personal aid to Reclusiarch Tanthus, Yeremos is an aspiring sorcerer and an apprentice.
Lieutenant Kartherus–Personal aid to Reclusiarch Tanthus, Kartherus researches daemonic icons and talismans, going through stolen records and scriptures, he watches over the library vault.
Lieutenant Hezek–Personal aid to Kilm Vanshal, Hezek was the first to be strongly influenced by Kilm Vanshals and give his complete and utter devotion.
Lieutenant Garius–Personal aid to Kilm Vanshal, Garius was found by Kilm wondering Kabal III after being abandoned by his own battle brethren and was consumed by despair and insanity.
Lieutenant Vorg–Formally of the Iron Hands Vorg is the Dark Talons techmaster he watches over and ensures the Dark Talons armoured might is in top condition.
There would probably be about 7 other Lieutenants/Sorcerers
*VETERANS-There are probably about 80 that would be considered the veterans of the Dark Talons
-Chosen unit comp: 5-10
-Ravagers unit comp: 5-10
-Terminators-Maybe about 1/4 of the Veterans are Terminators, such armour would be rare and so their unit comp is probably 3-5 and may only have one Terminator Champion.
MARINES-Probably about 300 different marines with all squads not being able to field the numbers that other chaos marines can their unit comp are most likely going to be 5-10 marines strong so that the Dark Talons can stay more flexible. Such squads would be the following
-Talon Command Squads
-Marines
-Assault Marines- I went with Assault Squads because Raptors are a cult from the Eye of Terror - One squad may be upgraded with Coloth the BoneCrusher
-Bikers- might be a little rarer; squad size would probably be 3-5 with the option of an attack bike
-Havocs-One squad may be upgraded with Havoc Champion Karm Vestatus
-vehicle crewmen
OTHER- These would be the new marines the Dark Talons would have acquired after going out on their own and starting to recruit again and manipulating the multiple gene-seeds using the teachings of Fabius Bile. So there are probably about 50 of them with most being the Savage Wolves and many probably wouldn’t survive the recruiting process of the Dark Talons.
-Recruits- Probably a unit comp of 5-10 including the TaskMaster
-Savage Wolves- The few space wolves that had joined the Dark Talons had been experimented on by Fabius Bile and their strength was greatly increased. Fabius Bile even introduced their genetic structure into some of the Dark Talons new recruits and many had died. Master Retrave had Bile leave the Dark Talons only sparing his life for the knowledge that was needed for recruitment. The Savage Wolves would be rare and so there might only be one or two squads of 5-10; but Issatroth has the knowledge to make more of them.
The following is taken from the sticky "History of the Dark Talons"
*VEHICLES
It has only been since Kabal III and the Val-Gaur’s betrayal that the Chapter has begun to use vehicles in any great number. This was due to the Dark Talons not having any particular need for them before. While under the Blood Pact command they left all the heavy armor to the Blood Pact Tank Divisions. However now, due to their new autonomy, they have been forced to re-supply through piracy and raiding of the depots and forge worlds of the Imperium.
With this I figure the Dark Talons would do a fast hit and run attack, taking what they can in a hurry.
DREADNOUGHTS– Would be extremely rare most likely the armored shell was stolen or recovered and may have been rebuilt so there would be 1-3 at the most.
VEHICLES - 30-50 including the following
-Rhinos
-Predators
-Vindicators
Land Raiders would more than likely be just a little too rare for the Dark Talons and they don't have the know how to build daemonic war engines like the Defiler so those two units would be out of the question.
ASSAULT CRAFT – Unknown amount I figure about 40 landing ships and lots of drop pods
-Drop Pods-because the Dark Talons have 2 Strike Cruisers
-Thunder Hawks-maybe just a few; but very doubtful
-Stolen Imperial Assault Boats- more than likely
Well I got more notes I can share but there really is no need.
using this and the individual character list, I figured I would put them together, just for easier viewing. May encourage furhter development that way...so here goes!
HQ
Master Retrave
Reclusiarch Tanthus
Kilm Vanshall
Armendeculus
Torturer Issatroth
Lieutenant Gallo
Lieutenant Ligarius
Lieutenant Dazhain
Lieutenant Yeremos
Lieutenant Kartherus
Lieutenant Hezek
Lieutenant Garius
Lieutenant Vorg
Chaos Lord
Chaos Sorcerer
Talon Guard
Talon Command Squad
Putting them all together, I would assume only a couple of the lieutenants would have different stat lines, and the rest would be purely fluff? Otherwise there would be way too many choices IMHO.
Also with Talon Guard, I would say you can only take them if you have another HQ choice. I know this is fairly obvious, but I didn't see it written anywhere, so wanted to clear that up.
Elites
Dark Talon Chosen
Dark Talon Terminators
Dark Talon dreadnought
Dark Talon Wolves
Mutant Marines
Noone want any Elite characters you can add to lead a squad? Maybe one or two of the lieutenants from the HQ list?
Troops
Dark Talon Marines
Dark Tallon Initiates
Lesser Daemons? - were are we putting them? Will there be a limit per army?
Are we set on only having two troop choices? We could have members of the Blood Pact as a cheaper, 'meatshield' unit maybe?
Transport
Dark Talon Drop pod
Dark Talon Rhino
Fast Attack
Chaos Bikers
Dark Talon Assault Marines
Dark Talon Ravagers
Dark Talon Hounds
Heavy Support
Dark Talon Havocs - Karm Vestatus a sergeant option.
Dark Talon Predator
Dark Talon Vindicator
Thunderhawk - just fluff or actual unit?
Some ideas to think about, if we can get the list fully finalised with IC's, add-ons and normal units we'll be sorted!
beasts and cavalry can assualt 12" and have fleet, with the extra 12" movement they'll be moving 30" per turn. that seems a bit ott imoDark Talon Hounds-15 pnts
WS-4
BS-0
S-4
T-3
W-1
I-5
A-1
Ld-8
Sv-5+
Unit/Type-Beast
Number/Squad-5-10
Wargear- Fangs and Claws
Special Rules- Chaos Bloodhound
Fearless
Fangs and Claws- All attacks made by a Dark Talon hound are classed as rending attacks.
Chaos Bloodhound- This unit may move 12" per turn, have the Furious Charge special rule, and are unaffected by the Night Fight special rule.
Does seem a bit much. Maybe we just remove the 12" movement from that rule? So they just have the Furious Charge special rule, and are unaffected by the Night Fight special rule.beasts and cavalry can assualt 12" and have fleet, with the extra 12" movement they'll be moving 30" per turn. that seems a bit ott imo
Ah its good to be back and to have internet :so_happy:
Something we talked about but didn't get to posting since it seemed that at the time their were only really two of us working on the Dark Talons.
BLAH! I don't want to bore you with excuses
k:
Ah well done very nice :victory:using this and the individual character list, I figured I would put them together, just for easier viewing.
Actually I believe we were supposed to make them weaker to make up for their impressive speed. Fluffwise they are just a piece of the Dark Talons cruelty and hatred, gamewise they are supposed to be a quick, cheap way to tie up the enemy and buy time; but not really doing any real damage.Does seem a bit much. Maybe we just remove the 12" movement from that rule? So they just have the Furious Charge special rule, and are unaffected by the Night Fight special rule.
Something we talked about but didn't get to posting since it seemed that at the time their were only really two of us working on the Dark Talons.
BLAH! I don't want to bore you with excuses
k:
So if you wanna keep the speed, and reduce combat effectiveness to balance them out a bit more, so reduce initiative and/or strength and/or WS. If they have furious charge they would almost always be attacking first with their speed I think, so A should be fine.
Let's finalise these guys now, and then we can move on from there! :victory:
Let's finalise these guys now, and then we can move on from there! :victory:
Attempt at hounds
Dark Talon Hounds-12 pnts per model
WS-4
BS-0
S-3
T-3
W-1
I-3
A-1
Ld-8
Sv-5+
Unit/Type-Beast
Number/Squad-5-12
Wargear- Fangs and Claws
Special Rules- Chaos Bloodhound
Fearless
Fangs and Claws- All attacks made by a Dark Talon hound are classed as rending attacks.
Chaos Bloodhound- This unit may move 12" per turn, have the Furious Charge special rule, and are unaffected by the Night Fight special rule.
I lowered the strength and initiative by 1, and increased max squad size by 2, as i figurered they would be a 'pack-like' unit. Decreased points per model to 12, due to their relatively poor WS, S, T, and SV, and a lack of BS.
Their role seems to simple be to close down the enemy quick, soften them up and distract them for the stronger forces to advance unopossed.
Let's work on it!
Dark Talon Hounds-12 pnts per model
WS-4
BS-0
S-3
T-3
W-1
I-3
A-1
Ld-8
Sv-5+
Unit/Type-Beast
Number/Squad-5-12
Wargear- Fangs and Claws
Special Rules- Chaos Bloodhound
Fearless
Fangs and Claws- All attacks made by a Dark Talon hound are classed as rending attacks.
Chaos Bloodhound- This unit may move 12" per turn, have the Furious Charge special rule, and are unaffected by the Night Fight special rule.
I lowered the strength and initiative by 1, and increased max squad size by 2, as i figurered they would be a 'pack-like' unit. Decreased points per model to 12, due to their relatively poor WS, S, T, and SV, and a lack of BS.
Their role seems to simple be to close down the enemy quick, soften them up and distract them for the stronger forces to advance unopossed.
Let's work on it!
I an attempt to sort out a codex-worthy list, I will be trying to post the stats for all the custom characters, starting with HQ.
Now as far as I can tell, we only have 3 confirmed unique HQ choices: Master Retrave, Armendeculus and Kilm Vanshall. Flicking through the codex's I have, each army has at least 4 unique HQ choices, and the SM have about 9. Because of this, I figure we should have about another 2 unique HQ choices, I was thinking either one of the leitenants, Reclusiarch Tanthus and/or Torturer Issatroth. This would give anyone who uses them on tabletop (as I plan to) more variety, and would enrich the fluff for the Dark Talons IMO.
I believe this is the final stats for Master Retrave:
Master Retrave- 185 points
WS-6
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-4
I-5
A-3
Ld-10
Sv-3+
Unit Type - Infantry
Number/squad-1
Wargear-Power Armour
Relic Blade
Bolt Pistol
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules-Fearless
Independent Characters
5+ invulnerable Saves
War Machine
Relic Blade- A painful reminder from his days as part of the Dark Hands, Retrave gains +2 strength from this two handed weapon.
War Machine- In close combat Master Retrave appears as an unstoppable killing machine. He is gifted with the Counter Attack, Feel No Pain and Furious Charge special rules. Also he gains +D3 extra attacks when charging instead of the normal +1.
Final Stats for Kilm Vanshall
Kilm Vanshall - 190 point
WS-7
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-3
I-5
A-4
Ld-10
Sv-3+
Unit Type-Infantry
Number/Squad-1
Wargear-Power Armour
The Corrupter Crozius
The Spiked Halo
Bolt Pistol
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules-Fearless
Independent Character
5+Invulnerable Save
The Devil Within
The Corrupted Crozius-This weapon is classed as a master-crafted power weapon
The Spiked Rosarius-This is an Imperial Iron Halo that has been twisted by the Dark powers to better suit their whims. It confers a 5+ Invulnerable Save and increases Kilm’s weapon skill by 1(already included in profile).
The Devil Within-Whenever Kilm takes a wound you must take a leadership test. If he fails the test he is consumed by the daemon within him and his strength and toughness increase to five. However his initiative drops to four and he may not use any ranged attacks.
Final Stats for Amandeculus the Swordsman
Amandeculus the Swordsman-170 points
WS-5
BS-4
S-4
T-4
I-6
W-2
A-2
Ld-10
Sv-3+
Unit Type-Infantry
Number/Squad-1
Wargear-Power Armour
Sword of Gorgant
Bolt Pistol
Special Rules-Independent Character
Counter Attack
Sword of Gorgant – This is a master-crafter power sword.
Master Swordsman-Amandeculus is a master swordsman and if he is in close combat he always strikes first and is able to re-roll any failed hit rolls.
Now I feel we should add at least another Unique HQ choice, and if anyone else agrees, I'd like to put forward either one of the lieutenants, torturer Issatroth and reclusiarch Tanthus.
Now as far as I can tell, we only have 3 confirmed unique HQ choices: Master Retrave, Armendeculus and Kilm Vanshall. Flicking through the codex's I have, each army has at least 4 unique HQ choices, and the SM have about 9. Because of this, I figure we should have about another 2 unique HQ choices, I was thinking either one of the leitenants, Reclusiarch Tanthus and/or Torturer Issatroth. This would give anyone who uses them on tabletop (as I plan to) more variety, and would enrich the fluff for the Dark Talons IMO.
I believe this is the final stats for Master Retrave:
Master Retrave- 185 points
WS-6
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-4
I-5
A-3
Ld-10
Sv-3+
Unit Type - Infantry
Number/squad-1
Wargear-Power Armour
Relic Blade
Bolt Pistol
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules-Fearless
Independent Characters
5+ invulnerable Saves
War Machine
Relic Blade- A painful reminder from his days as part of the Dark Hands, Retrave gains +2 strength from this two handed weapon.
War Machine- In close combat Master Retrave appears as an unstoppable killing machine. He is gifted with the Counter Attack, Feel No Pain and Furious Charge special rules. Also he gains +D3 extra attacks when charging instead of the normal +1.
Final Stats for Kilm Vanshall
Kilm Vanshall - 190 point
WS-7
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-3
I-5
A-4
Ld-10
Sv-3+
Unit Type-Infantry
Number/Squad-1
Wargear-Power Armour
The Corrupter Crozius
The Spiked Halo
Bolt Pistol
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules-Fearless
Independent Character
5+Invulnerable Save
The Devil Within
The Corrupted Crozius-This weapon is classed as a master-crafted power weapon
The Spiked Rosarius-This is an Imperial Iron Halo that has been twisted by the Dark powers to better suit their whims. It confers a 5+ Invulnerable Save and increases Kilm’s weapon skill by 1(already included in profile).
The Devil Within-Whenever Kilm takes a wound you must take a leadership test. If he fails the test he is consumed by the daemon within him and his strength and toughness increase to five. However his initiative drops to four and he may not use any ranged attacks.
Final Stats for Amandeculus the Swordsman
Amandeculus the Swordsman-170 points
WS-5
BS-4
S-4
T-4
I-6
W-2
A-2
Ld-10
Sv-3+
Unit Type-Infantry
Number/Squad-1
Wargear-Power Armour
Sword of Gorgant
Bolt Pistol
Special Rules-Independent Character
Counter Attack
Sword of Gorgant – This is a master-crafter power sword.
Master Swordsman-Amandeculus is a master swordsman and if he is in close combat he always strikes first and is able to re-roll any failed hit rolls.
Now I feel we should add at least another Unique HQ choice, and if anyone else agrees, I'd like to put forward either one of the lieutenants, torturer Issatroth and reclusiarch Tanthus.
if there is anybody on the imperiums side add me as a buddy please, and ill add you.
41 - 60 of 68 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums
A forum community dedicated to Warhammer, Warhammer 40K enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about Warhammer and Wargaming collections, miniatures, tactics, terrain, reviews, accessories, history, displays, models, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
