[Tok]

Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum (just joined today), and I had just posted this topic on two other forums. I decided to post it here as well as a way to introduce myself, get to know some people here, and most of all, get some more opinions. So here is is (modified with a few suggestion I had gotten).

For those of you that don't know, Brimstone from Warseer.com has said that a new Dark Eldar codex may be coming relatively soon, possibly even next year in '08.

Now this topic may be a little premature, but I was wondering what kind of changes / additions you'd like to see in the new Dark Eldar Codex. This can include change in points cost, new wargear, new squad options, and even new units.
Also, feel free to say what models you thing need to be redone.

Here are some of my own thoughts.

HQ:

I'm pretty happy with the Dark Eldar HQ choices. However, Ithink a few pieces of equipment could be added.
- Scourge Wings. Lords only. ( around 15 pts)
- Some kind of more powerful pistol, perhaps a plasma pistol equivalent (~10 / 15 pts)
- Incubi armor, complete with Tormentor helm and punisher. Lords only. (~25 pts)
- I got this idea after reading Nightbringer by Graham McNeill, which featured Dark Eldar. In the book, the Dark Eldar lord had these small creatures made from sewn together flesh that would jump on and attack his opponent in close combat. I think this could be represented by a new piece of wargear, similar to an ork attack squig, with the following profile:
Pts: 15 WS: 3 BS: --- S:3 T:3 W:3 I:5 A:3 Ld: 4 Sv: ---
This could only be taken by Dark Eldar Lords and Haemonculi, and when the character died, the creatures would be assumed to scatter, thus destroyed.

- Plastic Incubi FTW. Plastic lord similar to the SM one would be nice too.

Elite

- Plastic Wyches would be really nice.

- I've never used Mandrakes or Grotesques, so have no comment on how to change their rules... they seem pretty balanced to me.

- And idea for a new elite unit: Dark Eldar assassins. These would be similar to Imperial assassins. They would be a 0-1 choice, but, like Lictors and Zoanthropes, up to three could be taken and they would be deployed separately. Each one would be in the 50 / 70 pts ranged and equipped with special wargear. Perhaps they could have different rolls, ie. tank hunter, HQ assassin, monstrous creature killer. Same stats as a Dark Eldar Sybarite, but with two wounds and the infiltrate and move through cover special rules.

Troop

- Despite many complaints about the current Dark Eldar warriors and the high probability that they are going to be redone, I think this is unnecessary and think the basic warrior may be one of the best looking models in the whole army. my humble opinion, of course.

- Give Dark Eldar warriors a splinter pistol in addition to their splinter rifle, similar to the way Dark Angels have a Bolter and a Bolt Pistol. That way, when they assault they can at least soften up the target with a little fire. Also, Any warrior would be able to exchange their splinter rifle with a CCW for free, so they'd have a CCW and splinter pistol, giving them +1 attack in close combat.

- For +2 pts each, Raider squad warriors may be given hit and run ability.

Fast Attack

- Give Reavers hit and run ability


Heavy Support

- Scourges: Scourges need a bit of re-working in my opinion, as right now they are far to fragile for their high pts cost.
- Base Points cost reduction from 16 to 14 pts. All weapon/ upgrade options remain the same pts.
- Ability to take Blasters for +15 pts and Shredders for +15 pts.

- Reduce Ravager to 100 pts. All options remain same pts cost.

Forgeworld

- Do... something. Originally I had thought a titan or super-heavy so that they wouldn't feel left out when apocolypse came around, but as others pointed out, Dark Eldar focus on Raids and fast strikes, which would be kind of hard to do with a titan/ heavy. But still, I feel a little left out when it comes to cool forgeworld models for the Dark Eldar.
-----------------------------

So yeah, that’s my thoughts. I know I added a lot of hit and run in there, but that’s how I see Dark Eldar. They’re raiders, they strike fast and then disappear before you can destroy them, only to strike again. This combined with the more assaulty main warrior I think gives the army a more fluff-accurate feel and I think would play nicer.

So, your turn now.

 

[uberschveinen]

Dark Eldar warriors do not need upgrading. Anyone who thinks they do really doesn't know what they're talking about. They're just about the best basic troops unit in the game for their points, and without any of the nasty drawbacks that the other contenders have. Still, the SP+CCW combo wouldn't be too much.

You won't be getting a plastic Lord. Seriously, with so very many stupid people out there convinced that Dark Eldar are crap because all the other stupid people they know told them because the other stupid people told them, GW would have to make the Dark Eldar mightier than the current Chaos codex for them to see widespread play on a scale that warrants a plastic Lord.

As for Forgeworld, they're stilll a corporation. If a revamped DE codex manages to make the countless idiots out there that DE are not weak at all, then the increased demand wioll see you get what you want. Don't hold your breath, though, since the much more frequently played and much more desperately in need of a new unit type Necrons still only have the Pylon.


As for the changes in general, without my resources on hand, I can't critique the specifics. However, given that the DE codex was already at least slightly above average, your changes exclusively improving things will probably be too much.

 

[torealis]

To be fair, i don't play DE, so take my comments with a pinch of salt.

I would go so far as to say that DE are an unpopular army because they felt like a bad cash in... they tied it in with (3rd ed?) release in what felt like an underthought 'we need money' move. The models are (in my opinion) horrendous, and the whole thing feels like 'teh dark elves in space!' to me. This is why i celebrated the Tau, an army that was well-developed and new...

 

[The Drop Zone]

first off
its only in the US that dark eldar are the biggest unknown army in the game

they still sell de on the shelves across the pond....
I play dark eldar so i know that a few things could change for the better
talos are terrible... they are way to slow have no guns worth mentioning.. at least upgrade to splinter cannons the rifles are bad...id like to see them get 12" movement to keep up

jet bikes are over priced there isnt much benefit to them you shoot them they fall down... improve the save or at least give them all the ability to have a better upgrade weapon

I dont know about a plactic dark eldar lord .. all hero type models are all metal now and i dont see that trend changing id like to see a new model tho thats for sure

fw... why ? unless they want to make new raiders that are more easterling looking from lord of the rings (the spiked armor and such and not the oliphonts) i just dont see it .. unless they do release the codex and offer some new ideas

 

[Anphicar]

I think that the Talos weaponry should change, but i think the talos is amazing as is. THATS RIGHT. I said it.

For some more points, maybe upgrade the talos sting with splinter cannon.

But i must say, the Talos sting is still pretty cool.

Warriors do not need change. But--I would like to see some type of wargear that allows for some kind of invulerable save (5+ or 6+) for basic troops/hellions/reavers for a certain amount of points.

Incubi armor on a lord would be sweet if you were not going to give him a shadowfield, but then he would not be fleet.

I would also like to see that new "Pick a combat drugs effect one time each" rule done away with.

And, I think Haemonculi should have a better save, and some more(not as in the wargear they have lacks creativity, i wanna see more!) creative wargear, as i see the Haemoculi and the experimental "Techmarine" of the DE.

 

[Firewolf]

>> Hellions need re-done. They have potential to be hard, but their weapon sucks. What are essentially suppossed to be assault troops(being sect of the wych cults), they give them a weapon that is rapid fire??

Plastic wyches would be good, not saying the current ones are bad, but they have'nt really got conversion potential at the mo, either that im just shit.

Warriors, are imho, fine, just need plastic dark lances and shredders/blasters added to box-set. SP/CCW warriors should be a new
troop choice. Peeps have said before slaver squads or something.

grotesques???


It says in the codex that they coat their splinter ammo in poisons and toxins, so giv ethem a rule like poisoned attacks in fantasy, 6 to hit causes an aotomatic wound, but opponent gets armour save, unless ap of weapon is better than armour.

Better weapon upgrades for reavers- splinter cannons would go well on them.

Some better bloody vehicle upgrades.


Hve heard peeps sying, niot on here mind, that Incubi should be available as a seperate elirte unit, to this I say bollocks. Incubi are bodyguard, its what they do.

Talos in Heamonculi covens only, as they are to slow to go in fast moving raiding armies.

>>Thats what I think. Feel free to shoot me down, cos I dont care.

 

[Firewolf]

Incubi armor on a lord would be sweet if you were not going to give him a shadowfield, but then he would not be fleet.

>> Good idea, cos if you have him with Incubi, which most folks usually do, he cant fleet anyway.

 

[Firewolf]

To be fair, i don't play DE, so take my comments with a pinch of salt.

I would go so far as to say that DE are an unpopular army because they felt like a bad cash in... they tied it in with (3rd ed?) release in what felt like an underthought 'we need money' move. The models are (in my opinion) horrendous, and the whole thing feels like 'teh dark elves in space!' to me. This is why i celebrated the Tau, an army that was well-developed and new...

>> ASgree with you here mate. They were just a money-making ploy that was marketed horrendously. If they had put as much effort into DE as thyey did into the ,imho, crappy Tau, DE would have been a great cash cow for them.

 

[Galahad]

Firewolf, you need to learn quote multiple people in the same post. THere's no need to post three seperate times when one big post would take less board reources, page space and would look les like an attempt to inflate your post count (I'm not saying that's what you;re doing, mind you)

As to the tpipc at hand, I think DE need better PR. put some fluff out for them in WD, battle reprts, conversions etc.

 

[Firewolf]

Firewolf, you need to learn quote multiple people in the same post. THere's no need to post three seperate times when one big post would take less board reources, page space and would look les like an attempt to inflate your post count (I'm not saying that's what you;re doing, mind you)

As to the tpipc at hand, I think DE need better PR. put some fluff out for them in WD, battle reprts, conversions etc.

>> Caught me out man. I just want to feel important for a change

 

[Knight of ne]

how about nerfing them slightly, they are uber powerfull in combat and the only thing i have actually seen stand up to them in CC is the old harliequins.

 

[The Son of Horus]

THe only thing the Dark Eldar need is a shiny new codex to draw some attention-- the rules themselves are actually fine in my opinion-- the Dark Eldar are one of the best armies in the game. They could use some new models, too... but that goes without saying.

They need to make Splinter Rifles assault weapons. They're similar to shuriken weapons, really, and there's no reason they couldn't fire them from the hip reasonably well on the charge.

Wyches need to be changed a bit, I think. Get rid of the halving weapon skill, and just jump their initiative up to the point where they pretty much always hit first. A slightly better reflex save might be good too.

They need to do something to make a lot of units more appealing to take. Every Dark Eldar army I see consists almost entirely of Raider squads, Wyches, a unit of Reavers, and a talos, with the lord being the only variable. They need to make grotesques, scourges, mandrakes, and hellions all much more appealing as choices so people actually take them.


On the subject of Apocalypse... I doubt they'll do anything for the Dark Eldar since they're not really supported by GW, but if they do anything, there'll be rules for their air support.

 

[morfangdakka]

I am fairly new to Dark Eldar but I am having fun putting together this army.

I would like to see the talos faster and be able to keep up with the army. Reavers would be nice to have some vehicle upgrades for their price.

Scourges and hellions would be nice to have changed maybe make scourages an elite jump trooper because they don't funtion well as a heavy support. It would be nice to maybe give hellions a punisher to take since it is a two handed weapon as well.

I think a cool option would be to have a war walker type of weapons platform.

 

[Anphicar]

Dark Eldar and war walkers? That i could never see happening. :\

 

[The Wraithlord]

I think the biggest problem with the Dark Eldar is the models, hands down. I don't think GW makes any other models as fugly as the ones in the DE range. With proper models and a few tweaks to the rules, I think they could be a seriously strong army fo anyone. They are evil as it is but only after tons of practice or in the right hands and most people either can't or aren't willing to put that much effort into an army that takes so long to get a reward from.

 

[Kaoscontrol]

my personal prefrence to DE would be they need a WHOLE new makeover.

they are some of the worst looking models in the game and they just seem like there still in 2nd ed!

theres a limited range of models in my opinion and even they look rather naff....they do indeed need a brand new update every single model...some new units....and a hell of alot of fluff really...because they do lack in it from what i've seen!

 

[The Wraithlord]

The thing that kills me the most about the entire line of models is the over spikey armour and those utterly ridiciulous helmets. I mean come on, you are going to war and like to be sneaky so instead of wearing close fitting armour that hides your profile you stick a GIGANTIC DUNCE CAP on your head. A dunce cap WITH SPIKES!! In all honesty, rules aside, I think it is those idiotic looking helmets on the models that make people put the box back when looking at starting an army.

Some of the models are cool enough (or in the case of Lileth damn right awesome) but more need to be in plastic as well. But for heavens sake GW, get rid of the dunce caps.

 

[Galahad]

>> Caught me out man. I just want to feel important for a change

Just be proliffic and helpful and your post count will climb on its own and (most importantly) people's opinion of you will to, especially if you just be honest and helpful. Doesn't matter if you get a high post count if everyone sees you as "That guy who spams the board" Just be patient ;-)

Anyway, back tot he subject...I'm inclined to agree with the people who say that they just need a new dex and new models. The "Dark eldar suck" thing seems to be backed mainly by the fact that they don;t show up in many GTs, and whe they do they don't place high.

But that, I believe, is mainly doe to their lack of support. They're not well known or widely played, so they don't make it to tournies often. aNd they;re not an easy army to play correctly. They take the field in spandex and nipple clamps, riding vehicle made of wet cardboard. People take a glance and write it off.

It takes a sharper mind to run DE successfully than it does for marines, so people read that as "They suck, but if you're smart you can compensate" when it really eans "If you;re smart you can dominate"

 

[Anphicar]

In all honestly those "spikey dunce helmets" are what got me into DE.

The warriors look fine, IMO. (Except the guy with the freaky hair. *Shiver*) And so are the incubi. The other models could use a revamp tho.

 

[jigplums]

They need sorting out big time. Models in general are aweful. Most of the codex is either too powerful or not worth taking. Look at warriors compared to guardians or a raider compared with a vyper. Also i think a name change for the army could be in order as they seem too "space elfy". They have enormous potential i think and GW could do alot worse then sorting them out