Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I started collecting Dark Angels in 2006, because I liked their fluff. Now it seems that they finally may be getting a strong rule-set, the only problem is… Are they too strong? This is an army list I came up with using the Space Marine Codex’s points costs as a reference. DA Battle Company as far as I know is identical, just some rules and benefits like the Grim Resolve are different. This army list should come very close to (if not exactly to) 1850pts. I’ll edit the post once I’ll have the codex at hand. Anyways… I wanted to share this, because I am not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. I’ve waited for DA to become powerful for a very long time but at the same time I know I wouldn’t want to face this army with my Tyranids or CSM, or with anything that isn’t SM, Eldar or Necrons. Of course the army has no fliers but those free Razorbacks are insane.



DARK ANGELS BATTLE COMPANY (2xDemi-companies)

HQ
Company Master (Joins a Command Squad)
Auspex

Chaplain (Joins a Command Squad)
Auspex

ELITES
Command Squad (5)
4xGrav gun & the Standard that grants Relentless and Counter-attack
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Command Squad (5)
4xGrav gun & the Standard that grants Relentless and Counter-attack
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (5)
1xMelta gun
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Tactical Squad (5)
1xMelta gun
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Tactical Squad (5)
1xMelta gun
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Tactical Squad (5)
1xMelta gun
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Tactical Squad (5)
1xMelta gun
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Tactical Squad (5)
1xMelta gun
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad (5)
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Assault Squad (5)
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastator Squad (5)
4xLascannon
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

Devastator Squad (5)
4xLascannon
Razorback (1)
1xTwin-linked Lascannon

RAVENWING ATTACK SQUADRON

Attack Bike (1)
1xMulti-melta

Land Speeder (1)
2xMulti-Melta


62 Infantry + 1 Bike

12 Tanks + 1 Speeder

20xLascannons (of which 12 are twin-linked)
8xGrav-guns (which are all relentless)
6xMelta guns
3xMulti-meltas

Everything apart from the attack bike and the land speeder is ObSec.

Everything except the tanks and the land speeder has BS4 overwatch.


So this is soon possible with the Dark Angels? Any thoughts?
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
It's pretty good. It's basically the same as what Marines can do with it, but not being able to bring something other than Assault Marines (who are shit) is a pretty big penalty for losing Chapter Tactics and the Doctrines from the Gladius that I'm not sure BS4 Overwatch actually makes up for.

Grim Resolve is going to be a game-winner in some matches, and basically irrelevant in others, so I'm not overly enamoured of it as a trait.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Have we actually seen that the Lion's Blade gives ObjSec? I haven't seen all of the screen captures, myself.

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Dark Angels from a green-wing perspective. As Midnight has said, Dark Angels can be a bit lackluster doing what smurfs do. I have described the army as very strong at 'take and hold', which Grim Resolve can do, but...

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that Dark Angels can do far better by being Dark Angels. Ravenwing. Deathwing. Etc. Right now this army list can LITERALLY be built as a C:SM list for absolutely no change, get the tactical doctrines instead of situational Overwatch... and you could even add the landspeeder Formation, since it's a Formation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I can confirm that the Lion's blade demi-companies do indeed have ObSec besides the BS4 overwatch. Other than that, you may be right about it that the space marines have an even better battle company with their doctrines and more varied options, such as grav-cents and bike captains and bike command squads. I haven't even really considered those options. But the real question is, I think, should either army have anything like this? This is basically a 2500pts army fitted in to 1850pts.

This army list is hardly optimized, but I think DA has some strong options considering it can take Ravenwing as part of the Battle company. As you mentioned, in theory SM could take them as well since they are a formation, but fitting the compulsory two core choices (demi-companies) and one auxiliary in to 1850pts is not that easy. At least DA has ravenwing units as an auxiliary.

Anyway I think the best Battle companies will be those that make most use out of the forced options such as the six tacticals. Only Imperial fists, Ultramarines and maybe White Scars chapter tactics help the tacticals become more useful. DA grim resolve does make the tacticals better as well. I mean, a Battle company has 24 ObSec units. It's designed to take and hold objectives, that is it's strenght and with grim resolve you need dedicated assault units to push off even lousy tacticals away from the objectives.

I'd gladly charge an 80pts khorne hounds in to an 80pts ultramarine squad, but similar sized DA squad with grim resolve might drop those hounds before they even get in to close combat. Admitted, this isn't the best example, but you get the point. Against DA, assault truly is dead.

Also, I am not saying DA is better than SM, but the battle company and ravenwing both look pretty strong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
You get 12 free Razorbacks out of this list. How much are they? 60? You don't get the lascannons for free, only the hulls. So that can't be more than 3-400 points. I can't math right now.

The Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation actually gives you far more free stuff; I figured out I can get 700 points of upgrades out of that list. Less tactically flexible, but bigger 'oomph' out of the special weapons.

I guess where I'm going with this is that I'd rather run a Lion's Blade with just one Demi and get some variety than a few more razorbacks. ObjSec DW Redemption Force, anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You get 660pts worth of free stuff with this, so it is literally a 2500pts army without the free stuff. Having said that, personally I think I am going with just one demi-company too, because I too like variety. But to be honest, I hadn't realized how insane the battle companies can be until I started to plan my DA army. Anyway, I am glad DA is no longer the weakest SM chapter, but rather on par with everyone else.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
I guess where I'm going with this is that I'd rather run a Lion's Blade with just one Demi and get some variety than a few more razorbacks. ObjSec DW Redemption Force, anyone?
No, no, just the Demi-Companies get ObSec. Otherwise I'd be rolling around with a Land Raider Spearhead with OS :victory:

Sure, Overwatch is better with Grim Resolve, but would I want to give up three turns of Twin-Linked, two turns of re-rolling 1s to hit in shooting and two turns of re-rolling 1s to hit in melee for Ultramarines? Or Hit and Run and Scouts for White Scars? Or flat re-rolling 1s, with Tank Hunter Devastators, for Imperial Fists? Probably not, because assault just isn't something a lot of people plan on as a main strategy and the things that are going to assault you won't really care about a Tactical Squad overwatching (Riptides, Wraithknights, Wraiths etc.).

There's also the fact that Grim Resolve is the only Chapter Tactic with an active downside, which is exacerbated in the Battle Company where Tacticals and Devastators form a large body of your army. While other Chapter Tactics can be shitty (Raven Guard), none of them have an actual negative effect like DA have because muh fluff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think that if you give each of your five man tacticals a grav-cannon not even wraithknights will happily assault them. BS4 overwatch on units you want as objective holders anyway is decent IMO.

But as you stated DA battle company has other downfalls, namely the HQ, assault squad and devastator squad taxes. In order to get "free" transports I'll have to pay minimum of 180pts on HQ's I wouldn't normally take, 140pts on DA assault squads I'd never take and about 300pts on devastators that are simply worse than their SM equivalents. So that is 620 points worth of taxes versus the 660 free razorback points resulting in only 40 free points in actuality... not really worth it.

Having said this, sure SM may be better overall, but I am tired of playing my DA as counts as SM. I think DA has some good auxilaries, especially in the form of Ravenwing Attack and Support squadrons, so personally I'll still consider the Lion's blade, with one demi-company, as a base for the army.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
Ravenwing Black Knights/Command Squads are totally the way to go with the new DA, along with the new Ravenwing Support Squadron. A combination of those two, or the big Ravenwing strike force deal where they come on on turn 2, is going to be a mean list indeed.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top