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Rumour is that they will be limited to one Assault cannon in termie squads, however they may start to roll for Deepstrike from turn one
 

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Crikey there are a few more rumours going about.

Ravenwing lord on Jetbike 8)

5 or 10 man squad sizes only :?

No more Intractable :shock:

New Psyker powers :roll:

All PA marines will be getting frag and krak grenades as standard along with bolt pistols. :)

Veteran Sergeants are standard in all squads- I wonder if they will be free or cheaper than buying them normally... :?:

Only the Codex will tell but it's looking like Dark Angels with be heading for a more 'Tactically Flexible', than 'shooty' army... I guess it's more in keeping with the fluff, the Lion being the greatest tactician and all 8) but slightly less in keeping with what I had planned for my army... :(
 

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from monsinieur Brimstone over on warseer:
Dark Angels rumour compilation, these are RUMOURS only and should not be taken as confirmed information, if you want that await the codex release.

HQ

• Grandmaster – Azarael
Wargear Krak & Frag grenades, bolt pistol, Protector (artificer armour), Lion Helm (provides invulnerable save for Azarael and any unit he joins), Sword of Secrets(MC Power weapon +2S) and Lions Wrath (MC Combi plasma).


• Belial – Master of the Deathwing
- Wargear Terminator armour, storm bolter and Sword of Silence
- May change weapons to lightning claws or Thunder hammer/Storm shield for free.
- If Belial is included in an army one Terminator squad may be upgraded to a Deathwing command squad (Deathwing standard bearer and Apothecary).


• Sammael – Master of the Ravenwing
- Wargear Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades, Bolt Pistol, Iron Halo, Raven Sword, Adamantine Mantle, Jetbike (armed with TL-Storm Bolters & under slung Plasma Cannon)
- May switch to his Land Speeder in which case he now counts as a vehicle and wargear becomes ceremonial (having no in-game use). Shield of night now provides AV14 front and sides.
- If Sammael is included in a army one attack squadron may be upgraded to a Ravenwing command squad (Ravenwing standard bearer and Apothecary).

• Company Master (Master of the 3rd, 4th and 5th companies)
- May take a five man command squad but doesn’t have to join them.

• Ezekiel – Grandmaster of the Librarians
- Wargear Frag & Krak grenades, Secrets Shield (Artificer Armour), Deliver (MC Bolt Pistol), Traitor’s Bane (MC Force Weapon), Book of Salvation (all DA units within 12” are Fearless), and Psychic Hood, comes with both DA Psyker powers plus Mindworm.


• Dark Angels Librarian
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines except has two unique powers – Hellfire (Template str2D6-2 APD6) and Force Barrier (once per turn LD test ignore damage (not effective against psycannons/C’tan etc)).

• Dark Angels Chaplain
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines, may be upgraded to Interrogator Chaplains
- May take Terminator armour, bikes or Jump Packs.

• Dark Angels Command squads (max 5 models) are a HQ choice but do not take up a HQ slot you can take one for IC but they do not automatically form a retinue and may separate.

Elites


• Deathwing Terminator squad
- Squad Size is five models (no more/no less).
- All members of the Deathwing are fearless
- Only one heavy weapon per squad (One assault cannon, one Cyclone launcher or one heavy flamer).
- Squad can include a mixture of standard and close combat terminators.
- Uses special rule ‘Deathwing Assault’ up to 50% of terminator squads may deepstrike in the first turn without having to roll for deepstrike.
- Terminators are cheaper than the old Dark Angel codex but more expensive than Codex Space Marine Terminators
- Terminator standard equipment includes teleport homers.




• Company Veterans squad
- Base of five models and up to an additional five (although a max. squad of ten is needed to use the rule ‘combat squads’).
- Can take a mixture of weaponry (combi-weapons, storm bolters, special and heavy weapons).


• Techmarines
- Counts as elites but does not use an Elite slot in the FoC.
- One Techmarine may be taken for each non transport vehicle included in an army.

• Dark Angels Scout Squad
- Base is five marines and veteran sgt.
- May include a further five scouts.
- Armed with Krak, Frag and bolt pistol and one of the following as standard – Bolter, Shotgun or Close Combat weapon.
- Shotgun is now S4 (Manstopper rounds)
- Rest of options similar to scout squads.


Troops

• Tactical squad
- Uses ‘combat squads’ rule
- May take a special weapon if five marines and a special and heavy weapon if ten marines (heavy weapon includes plasma cannon)

• Ravenwing Attack squadron (If Master of the Ravenwing taken).

• Deathwing Terminator Squad (If Master of the Deathwing taken).


Fast Attack

• Assault squad
- Uses ‘combat squads’ rule
- May remove jump packs to count as infantry and can take a Rhino or Drop pod at no additional points cost.


• Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- Base of three bikes (may add another three to a maximum of six.
- All Ravenwing bikes are fearless.
- All Ravenwing bikes (including attack bikes) come with teleport homers and Scout USR as standard
- Two bikes may take a special weapon (flamer, melta or plasma at a points cost).
- Attack bike can be added as standard
- If squadron consists of maximum bikes (six) then a land speeder Tornado may be added.
- Squadron is deployed at the same time but may be separated into four scoring units (2x3 bikes, 1 x attack bike and 1 x land speeder Tornado).

• Ravenwing Support Squadron
- Base is one land speeder.
- May include up to four more land speeders, one may be a Tornado and one more a Typhoon.

Heavy Support

• Devastators
- May use ‘combat’ squads rule allowing squad to be split into 2x5 marines; this allows you to split out heavy weapons into two units.

Vehicle information


• Vehicles come with searchlights and smoke launchers as standard equipment.

• Drop pods and Predator annihilators (w/lascannon sponsons) more expensive all other vehicles remain at the same price or are cheaper.

• Whirlwinds have an option for incendiary missiles that remove cover saves.

• Dreadnoughts may take a Plasmacannon or Twin-linked Autocannon.

General Information

• All Dark Angels power armoured squads come with krak, frag and bolt pistols as standard
• All Dark Angels squads are led by veteran sergeants.

• Standards of Fortitude, Devastation and Retribution now come under a single classification of ‘sacred standard’ and require a interrogator chaplain in the army to use.

• No veteran skills available to Dark Angels.

• Codex follows the same format as the recently released Eldar codex.

• ‘Combat squads’ used for many selections, base is five models and then may be given another five models for a maximum of 10. When deployed unit may be split into two separate scoring units.

• Jink Save for the Ravenwing is gone.

• Stubborn and Intractable are gone.

• Rules for Cypher are not included in the codex

• No Mortis Dreadnought in the codex.

Miniature Information

• Several new HQ models including two new captains (already seen) along with remakes of named characters.

• Dark Angels upgrade sprue (similar to the Black Templars one but of better quality), icons for vehicle upgrades (no separate door sets). Including Deathwing parts and robed bodies.

• New Ravenwing sprue (including parts for the MotRW landspeeder)

• New Land Speeder sprue including parts for Tornado and Typhoon.

• Armydeal (Dark Angels) and Battleforce (Ravenwing) will be available

• New model for Cypher.

• Cypher is getting a new model. The new model of Cypher is confirmed, due for a late release. The model is in a pose crossed between the Emperor's champion and the LOTR Witch King. I hope you get what I mean. He is looking slightly downwards, and is armed with a very nice sword and some pistol I didn't recognise.
Hope this answer all your questions and fuels your fire.
 

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Yeah the DA look like they will be an interesting army, not sure if I like the idea of Combat Squads.
 

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After reading all of those rumors, I'm going to need a more experienced 4th edition Marine player to tell me if I should get excitied about a possible Ravenguard and/or Deathwing army....
 

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Alpharius said:
After reading all of those rumors, I'm going to need a more experienced 4th edition Marine player to tell me if I should get excitied about a possible Ravenguard and/or Deathwing army....
Yes you should :). I personally want a Deathwing army. Turn 1 deep strike?? That's sooooo broken.
 

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pathwinder14 said:
... I personally want a Deathwing army. Turn 1 deep strike?? That's sooooo broken.
Explain please.

Let's see,
- only 50% of the Deathwing in reserve get to Deep Strike on Turn 1.
- Deathwing have a max unit size of 5 models
- Deathwing are limited to a max of 1 Heavy Weapon
- Must field Master of the Deathwing to use Deathwing squads as Troops
- Unless using the Ravenwing as teleport spotters, the teleporting Deathwing will still have the standard chance of scattering

Therefore in order to get two Deathwing squads in on turn 1, I need to have at least three Deathwing squads held in reserve.
Further, if I give each squad an Assault Cannon (assumed), then that is close to 750 pts for just those three units.

So for a 1500 pts pure Deathwing list, the best I can get is three 5-man squads to Deep-Strike in on Turn 1 following normal deep strike rules, and each squad will only be equipped with a maximum of one Assault Cannon (or Heavy Weapon of your choice). Resulting in three Assault Cannons and 12 Storm Bolters within range of pretty much your opponent's entire army on turn 1 (and the rest of your Deathwing squads not arriving until Turn 2 or later), which is hardly overwhelming. You will be able to target three units, and mostly likely his entire army will be able to target your three squads (providing a great chance to test out the effectiveness of Terminator armour)

So I am not sure how that is "sooooo broken".


Venerable Dred
 

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hence why my deathwing just became an Ordo Xenos Deathwatch special killteam (with 2 scout squads to make is SM dex legal).
 

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Therefore in order to get two Deathwing squads in on turn 1, I need to have at least three Deathwing squads held in reserve.
Ummmm. . . no. In order to get 2 squads in on turn 1 you have to have at least FOUR terminator squads. 2 squads out of 3 is greater than 50% of your terminators.

But your are correct about the basic point though. . . nobody playing Deathwing should be excited about the new codex coming out. Dark Angels players, sure. . . but not Deathwing only players.

Which is why I just picked up 2 squads of scouts and will be running my Deathwing as Lysanderwing from now on!!
 

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To be honest, I am more excited about the possibility of a Ravenwing army.

Have to wait and see how the final rules shake out to see how viable (or not) they really are...
 

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Soulmage said:
Ummmm. . . no. In order to get 2 squads in on turn 1 you have to have at least FOUR terminator squads. 2 squads out of 3 is greater than 50% of your terminators.
Actually 50% of 3 is 1.5, and rounded up is 2.
So only 3 DW squads are needed to allow 2 squads to "Deathwing Assault" in on turn 1.

Which is why I just picked up 2 squads of scouts and will be running my Deathwing as Lysanderwing from now on!!
Yes, this option appears to be the most popular choice for those players unhappy with the loss of the second heavy weapon for the Deathwing squads. However none of the "Lysanderwing" squads will be able to include a Standard Bearer in Terminator Armour (with the Deathwing Company Standard) or an Apothecary in Terminator Armour.


Venerable Dred
 

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Actually 50% of 3 is 1.5, and rounded up is 2.
So only 3 DW squads are needed to allow 2 squads to "Deathwing Assault" in on turn 1.
I understand what the claim is. The problem is, unless the rule states that you round up, then you don't get to and it takes 4 squads to get two squas in with the deathwing assault rule.

If you do get to round up as you claim, then it only takes 1 squad to get a single squad in. Because 1/2 of 1 is .5 rounds up to 1.

I'm 100% positive that without a special exception listed in the text of the rule, the rule will permit "Up to" 50% of your terminators to deep strike. If you can't take advantage of the full 50% because of odd squad numbers, that is tough, but you don't get to round up and deepstrike more than 50%.

So, my question to you is, does the rule explicitly state you get to round up?
 

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Somewhere in the main rulebook, it talks about rounding up most fractions. I could be cross-wired with fantasy or something though. I don't know. Seems to me that you'd get to use two of three squads if it lets you have half.
 
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