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I had to google who Proteus was. The ultramarine from the movie Abnett 'wrote'?

That's not even fair.
Point is...there's been weak potrayals of both sides. Characters are often weaker on-screen (especially speed-wise) because viewers must be able to follow the action. Movie Jedi are relatively slow for this reason

Thus for fair matches...movie SM vs. movie Preds, wanky BL marines vs. wanky EU Preds
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I have to echo previous posters: holding off on releasing this story until after Vengeful Spirit went on sale undermined that novel.

It's not clever to play with the timeline/releases in such a manner when the novel doesn't even allude to Mortarion's glaringly out-of-character behavior. It reads more like damage control, much like the subsequent "explanations" of the bizarre timeline of The Outcast Dead.
 

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I have to echo previous posters: holding off on releasing this story until after Vengeful Spirit went on sale undermined that novel.

It's not clever to play with the timeline/releases in such a manner when the novel doesn't even allude to Mortarion's glaringly out-of-character behavior. It reads more like damage control, much like the subsequent "explanations" of the bizarre timeline of The Outcast Dead.
But it did get people talking about the book. So either way they get free advertising.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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The problem is that the story was preceded by negative talk about Mortarion's out-of-character behavior and actions. How much better would said "advertising" have been had "Daemonology" preceded Vengeful Spirit?

Or, gain, if McNeil had simply alluded to Mortarion acting out-of-character in a way that pointed to some serious event that precedes this story? You know, leaving a hook open for "Daemonology"?
 

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The problem is that the story was preceded by negative talk about Mortarion's out-of-character behavior and actions. How much better would said "advertising" have been had "Daemonology" preceded Vengeful Spirit?

Or, gain, if McNeil had simply alluded to Mortarion acting out-of-character in a way that pointed to some serious event that precedes this story? You know, leaving a hook open for "Daemonology"?
Suppose someone likes mortarion and wants to read books that feature him. So they come online and do a search. They see people bashing a book called vengeful spirit saying that mortarion is acting against everything he is.

Their curiosity is now peaked they want to know first hand what's going on so they're going to get the book and find out for themselves. If they hate it they're going to come online and do the same thing.

Generating more discussion and topics about it.

For those who are going to disagree I have three words.

Rebecca Black's Friday.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I'm not familiar with Rebecca Black's Friday.

Bottom line, and meaning no offense, I just don't see how your proposal makes good business sense: it requires Vengeful Spirit to have a built-in plothole, which would upset people who did purchase the novel, so as to leave something open for people who didn't it and somehow entice them to buy it well after its initial release.

We may have to agree to disagree on this topic.
 

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I'm not familiar with Rebecca Black's Friday.

Bottom line, and meaning no offense, I just don't see how your proposal makes good business sense: it requires Vengeful Spirit to have a built-in plothole, which would upset people who did purchase the novel, so as to leave something open for people who didn't it and somehow entice them to buy it well after its initial release.

We may have to agree to disagree on this topic.
Have I really found the one person on the internet who doesn't know what it is?

Short version, it's a song so terrible people go to the video just to bash it. Driving viewer counts up and making it more popular.

It's the exact same thing as leaving a gaping plot hole, it generates discussion either complaints or people theorizing about it. Either way it makes it more popular than what it normally would be if it was perfect.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Or... you could just not have a glaring plot hole, release relevant short stories in a way that actually supports the novel, and succeed on the merit of a well-written book.

Because, however you might like to spin it, the song you referenced sucking that bad in no way equated to the artist earning either accolades or revenue they would have received had it been really good. :wink:

But this is all hypothetical from my perspective, because I sincerely doubt that Black Library is deliberately putting out inferior products in the hopes of somehow generating negative reactions for the sake of also generating interest.
 

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Or... you could just not have a glaring plot hole, release relevant short stories in a way that actually supports the novel, and succeed on the merit of a well-written book.

Because, however you might like to spin it, the song you referenced sucking that bad in no way equated to the artist earning either accolades or revenue they would have received had it been really good. :wink:

But this is all hypothetical from my perspective, because I sincerely doubt that Black Library is deliberately putting out inferior products in the hopes of somehow generating negative reactions for the sake of also generating interest.
Would you honestly be happy to get maybe two pages just saying, Oh mortarion is now studying the very thing he hates to find out why his brothers are so into it?

IMO it's better to leave a mystery and get a story later on explaining it.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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No, I would rather get an allusion to the fact that Mortarion changed his ways AND get a short story that fleshes that out. Something like Mortarion pausing for a second after butchering his bodyguards and then squashing a momentary feeling of regret. Then, saying something like how only [however much time passes between Scars and Vengeful Spirit] ago he would not even have considered what he had just done, but that he had come a long way since Terathalion, where his eyes had been opened.

Or something to that effect.

Instead, I got a novel that went about as if there was nothing unusual about Mortarion pulling a 180 with his most fervently expressed moral stand. Then, almost seven months later, I got a story that purported to explain this.

No thanks!
 

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No, I would rather get an allusion to the fact that Mortarion changed his ways AND get a short story that fleshes that out. Something like Mortarion pausing for a second after butchering his bodyguards and then squashing a momentary feeling of regret. Then, saying something like how only [however much time passes between Scars and Vengeful Spirit] ago he would not even have considered what he had just done, but that he had come a long way since Terathalion, where his eyes had been opened.

Or something to that effect.

Instead, I got a novel that went about as if there was nothing unusual about Mortarion pulling a 180 with his most fervently expressed moral stand. Then, almost seven months later, I got a story that purported to explain this.

No thanks!
No matter what they put in someone would have complained about not having a good enough explanation. It's not a first time writers pulled something out of their ass and never explained it until much later on.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Dude, I'm honestly at a loss as to why you would be so ardent in defending a bad writing decision. Just because something bad happens doesn't mean the paying customer shouldn't expect a higher standard. I assure you, it is not even remotely a standard to write characters acting uncharacteristically without so much as an allusion to that fact.
 

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Dude, I'm honestly at a loss as to why you would be so ardent in defending a bad writing decision. Just because something bad happens doesn't mean the paying customer shouldn't expect a higher standard. I assure you, it is not even remotely a standard to write characters acting uncharacteristically without so much as an allusion to that fact.
It is a legit marketing strategy. That's all I am saying.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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No offense intended, but it really isn't. But by all means: e-mail Graham McNeill and ask him if he deliberately wrote Mortarion out-of-character for the purposes of generating negative publicity as a means of driving interest for his novel and any follow-on material tied to it. :)
 

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The Emperor Protects
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I'm with Phoebus here. Whilst I get what you're saying, generating negative reviews and attracting criticism is not a smart marketing move in the slightest. You never want to deliberatly generate bad publicity and perception of a product, especially a book, simply to get people to buy the next one, even more so if the next one is a tiny short.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Agreed. Also, as an artist/author I'm sure you would take issue with your publisher asking you to write one of your characters not only slightly out of character, but completely the opposite of how he is supposed to be for a marketing strategy (and a terrible marketing strategy at that).

Also, how much money does BL realistically make from sales of £1.99 ebook short stories? I don't imagine that much. So demanding an author completely change the character of one of the Primarchs in order to make a negligible profit on a few short story ebooks would be absurd. Also, that is assuming sales of Daemonology have been greater than they would have been if McNeill did allude to the character alteration in Vengeful Spirit.

As P said earlier, it wouldn't really be an issue if McNeill had alluded to it in Vengeful Spirit - but he didn't, not one iota.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Storm of Iron isn't bad, not great either. It does make Angel Exterminatus even worse though, as you see how much of a shameless set up for Storm of Iron it is.
 

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