[Lord Azune]

I've recently started an astra militarium army and I'm curious.... Would summoning daemons via maelific daemonology make them count as astra militarium or daemons for purposes of ally rules? aka, are they battle brothers or come the apocalypse?

I haven't found anything on the forums that touches this though I only skimmed. If it's already been answered, could someone just direct me to that post?

 

[scscofield]

They would be codex daemons so CtA. You would also perils on all doubles not just double 6s when casting Maelific powers.

 

[Lord Azune]

Guess I can't wait till they finally release a codex for traitor guard then.

 

[scscofield]

Are trying to be super competitive? If this is just casual play, go ahead and build a AM army with some demon allies. CtA is annoying but not crippleing, especially if this is just for fun play.

 

[Lord Azune]

Not really trying to be super competitive, I just enjoy the fluff of a traitor guard without using IA. I prefer Tzeentch over Khorne or Nurgle.

 

[scscofield]

If this is for fun, just do the army. Like I said CtA is annoying but it won't cripple you. That is the best part of what has been happening with 7th. It opens the game wide open to do what you like and still be able to legally play it.

 

[mayegelt]

If you want "Codex Traitor Guard" you will need to find Imperial Armour books 5-7 I think. Each contain Chaos Renegades of some form or another.
Also remember a lot of there stuff is effectively the old imperial guard book from back in the day (5th edition).

Here is the FW Renegades and Heretics from book 5 as an update from the forgeworld site.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA5_RH.pdf

with update to the psyker found here
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Psykers.pdf

Book 6 had some Khorne stuff

Book 7 has some Nurgle bits like
Plague Marine Exalted Champions as leaders (basically half way between a plague marine and a lord)
Mutant Rabble (kinda like conscripts)
Plague Zombie Horde (very low point guys with S4 and melee, but always class as moving in difficult terrain with FNP)
Plague Marines
Chaos Spawn

 

[Lord Azune]

Yes, I'm aware of those codex traitor guard army's, as I said before though, Tzeentch is my homeboy.

 

[don_mondo]

Also, if using IG to summon daemons, the Wyrdvanes are your best bet due to Brotherhoof of Psykers. Generally, when you peril, you will only lose one member of the squad so still have a useful summoning unit. Primaris aren't too bad, since they do have two wounds and can usually survive at least one perils.

 

[mayegelt]

Well the first link is just generic renegades stuff. So could actually be Tzeentch / Slaanesh. The trouble is they don't get Thousand Sons or a nice Sorcerer to lead them.
Of course they have Alpha Legion guys if they want them, but they don't have to or just say they are Tzeentch in your own head .
But in either case they can ally that bit easier to Daemons and CSM than AM can

 

[Miester_Zef]

Ahhh, i am going to have to disagree. The summoned demons are not taking an allied detachtment slot so i believe they dont qualify as an ally. They are the result of a spell. CtA only applies when fielding an army ie allied, or unbound. That is how i come to understand it.

 

[don_mondo]

Ahhh, i am going to have to disagree. The summoned demons are not taking an allied detachtment slot so i believe they dont qualify as an ally. They are the result of a spell. CtA only applies when fielding an army ie allied, or unbound. That is how i come to understand it.

That's what I originally thought as well, but check the phrasing on the allies chart. Seems to apply to any unit, regardless of how they come to be in your army. I'll get to my book later and post the actual text if necessary.

 

[Miester_Zef]

Uh....if you could please. Im a couple hundred miles from mine. At least til tomorrow.

 

[don_mondo]

Basically, the label "Allies Matrix" is, IMO, a misnomer as it has nothing whatsoever to do with Allied Detachments.

Page 126:
"You can include models from any number of different Factions in the same army if you wish. Irrespective of the method you use to choose your army, this section tells you how models from different Factions fight alongside each other."

Skip a fluff paragraph, then:
"To represent this, we have several categories of alliances, each of which imposes certain effects on the game. The Allies Matrix below shows the level of alliance between units that have different Factions in the same army."

Highlighted the key parts where it says that these are rules for models/units. The Allies Matrix never mentions detachments, neither CAD or Allied nor does it mention Unbound. By using units and models, it covers both of those, as well as summoned units.

 

[Miester_Zef]

Well damn..... Thank you. I just lost a bet. Hehe. That does clear it up considerably. Thank you.