DA vs Nidzilla
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232 Posts
Well, I used to play 3k Tyranid against my firend's 3k DA back in third ed. We played for about three years so got to know the ins and outs of it fairly well.
Small squad size is usually quite handy. It means when charged you don't lose a swathe of marines. You force the nid player to take extra rounds of shooting by keeping the units small and spread well apart. Vindicators are a useful way to take out swarms - they are guaranteed to get in range at some point. Flamers as special weapons are fairly effective and cheap to boot.
Dreds with assault cannons do the job when it comes to mid range nids and can take on a MC if feeling brave.
Assuming they still have it in fourth ed, not falling back from combat is a major weakness for DA so maybe use transports to swing round and shield you from charges?
Bike squads are effective in getting to the back field and taking out pesky zoanthrope and biovores. The master of the ravenwing especially so. Avoid ripperswarms with bikers they can pin them in combat all game. Hit the rippers with assault cannon for a quick kill.
Don't expect your units to survive long when nids get close so the cheaper the better. Units of five worked well against my list.
Heavy armour is tempting against nids but I would suggest lrc loaded with assault termies for a counter attack if you go the heavy armour route. More bolter shots will help you more than a few extra lascannon.
Its the little gribblies than win games so if you tear the heart out of the advancing swarm early with focussed fire the MC's will soon fall under weight of fire.
Though 'cheesey' 3 dev squads all armed with heavy bolters or plasma guns (watch out for overheat with this tactic) can work a treat for mowing down synapse creatures and whole broods of little uns.
Don't waste points on an expensive HQ. Bulk it out with more models over better wargear.
You could use large units of scouts geared for cc to stall the frnt lines and use the DA no falling back stuff to your advantage to slow down the advance.
Hope that helps and all the best,
Zeldrin
Small squad size is usually quite handy. It means when charged you don't lose a swathe of marines. You force the nid player to take extra rounds of shooting by keeping the units small and spread well apart. Vindicators are a useful way to take out swarms - they are guaranteed to get in range at some point. Flamers as special weapons are fairly effective and cheap to boot.
Dreds with assault cannons do the job when it comes to mid range nids and can take on a MC if feeling brave.
Assuming they still have it in fourth ed, not falling back from combat is a major weakness for DA so maybe use transports to swing round and shield you from charges?
Bike squads are effective in getting to the back field and taking out pesky zoanthrope and biovores. The master of the ravenwing especially so. Avoid ripperswarms with bikers they can pin them in combat all game. Hit the rippers with assault cannon for a quick kill.
Don't expect your units to survive long when nids get close so the cheaper the better. Units of five worked well against my list.
Heavy armour is tempting against nids but I would suggest lrc loaded with assault termies for a counter attack if you go the heavy armour route. More bolter shots will help you more than a few extra lascannon.
Its the little gribblies than win games so if you tear the heart out of the advancing swarm early with focussed fire the MC's will soon fall under weight of fire.
Though 'cheesey' 3 dev squads all armed with heavy bolters or plasma guns (watch out for overheat with this tactic) can work a treat for mowing down synapse creatures and whole broods of little uns.
Don't waste points on an expensive HQ. Bulk it out with more models over better wargear.
You could use large units of scouts geared for cc to stall the frnt lines and use the DA no falling back stuff to your advantage to slow down the advance.
Hope that helps and all the best,
Zeldrin
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620 Posts
well im working on a ravenwing army and i play against a friend that has Nids
For HQ, I wouldn't use anyone that costs that many points, most of the Dark Angels HQs really won't do too much against the Nids. Unless you want to fork up 205 pts for Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing and put him on a Land Speeder (which will do lots against Nids), I would use either Belial or a Company master, nothing much else.
Elites I would just keep it simple and just use Terminators. Add Assault Cannon to any and all terminator squad you have. At most just 2 terms with CC upgrades. Add a Dreadnought as well, points permitting, keep the assault cannon and if you want make any upgrades to anything else on it. I would suggest if any to switch CC arm to Missile Launcher and storm bolter to heavy flamer.
For troops, keep them in small groups to keep the Nids going for mulitiple units so they don't all get to rush at one thing. I think for weapon upgrades I would keep it to just flamers. Melta will only take out one and plasma can hurt you back, and you will need all the men you can have against Nidzilla. Some transports such as Razorbacks are also very helpful as well since you should have smaller groups. Basically just have small groups for small points to maximize points for other elites, fast attack, and heavy support.
With what I have given you won't have much room for bike squads. I would have at most 3 separate Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons, making each 100 points. Now obviously you don't have to have 3, and just one can do some decent damage alone. Bike Squads would be points permitting kind of thing.
Tank wise, I would say Vindicator as a heavy tank b/c it will destroy lots of Nids at once. Besides Vindicator, I wouldn't use many other tanks, MAYBE a Land Raider, points permitting, but just as a transport for Terminators or a couple troops and with its Lascannon to take some shots at a possible Carnifex or two, Hive Tyrants, and Zoanthropes.
Theses weapons are your best friends against Tyranids:
Assault Cannons
Heavy Bolters
Flamers
Demolisher Cannon
There you go, my long 2 cents :mrgreen:
For HQ, I wouldn't use anyone that costs that many points, most of the Dark Angels HQs really won't do too much against the Nids. Unless you want to fork up 205 pts for Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing and put him on a Land Speeder (which will do lots against Nids), I would use either Belial or a Company master, nothing much else.
Elites I would just keep it simple and just use Terminators. Add Assault Cannon to any and all terminator squad you have. At most just 2 terms with CC upgrades. Add a Dreadnought as well, points permitting, keep the assault cannon and if you want make any upgrades to anything else on it. I would suggest if any to switch CC arm to Missile Launcher and storm bolter to heavy flamer.
For troops, keep them in small groups to keep the Nids going for mulitiple units so they don't all get to rush at one thing. I think for weapon upgrades I would keep it to just flamers. Melta will only take out one and plasma can hurt you back, and you will need all the men you can have against Nidzilla. Some transports such as Razorbacks are also very helpful as well since you should have smaller groups. Basically just have small groups for small points to maximize points for other elites, fast attack, and heavy support.
With what I have given you won't have much room for bike squads. I would have at most 3 separate Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons, making each 100 points. Now obviously you don't have to have 3, and just one can do some decent damage alone. Bike Squads would be points permitting kind of thing.
Tank wise, I would say Vindicator as a heavy tank b/c it will destroy lots of Nids at once. Besides Vindicator, I wouldn't use many other tanks, MAYBE a Land Raider, points permitting, but just as a transport for Terminators or a couple troops and with its Lascannon to take some shots at a possible Carnifex or two, Hive Tyrants, and Zoanthropes.
Theses weapons are your best friends against Tyranids:
Assault Cannons
Heavy Bolters
Flamers
Demolisher Cannon
There you go, my long 2 cents :mrgreen:
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5,539 Posts
I'll go against the grain and suggest something different.
Since you're going up against a Nidzilla list, the little Tyranids shouldn't feature too heavily and probably won't give you a lot of trouble. Against Nidzilla armies, the key is picking one or two Monstrous Creatures and bringing them down. Just like any other army, the key to victory is assessing which target(s) are of the highest priority, eliminating them and then moving on to the next unit.
As has been suggested, little Tyranids should be dealt with by your usual anti-infantry weapons. Heavy bolters, assault cannons even storm bolters will work admirably and clear the board of the little critters pretty quickly. The bigger creatures (like Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants) need a different approach. To start, you'll need to use bigger guns. Lascannons, plasma guns, meltaguns and anything else with a high Strength and low AP will help immensely as it's too difficult to cause wounds with less powerful weapons like heavy bolters.
Unfortunately firepower alone is almost never enough to stop the enemy completely. Fortunately the Dark Angels aren't without their close combat units. Deathwing Terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields generally excel against all but the toughest of MCs as their excellent invulnerable save coupled with their hard hitting weapons make short work of anything they get within smashing distance of. Any unit with a power fist is also a good way to keep a Monstrous Creature on its toes.
In general, I'd advise a list that has powerful shooting but also has the ability to pull off a convincing counter attack.
Hope this helps,
Katie D
Since you're going up against a Nidzilla list, the little Tyranids shouldn't feature too heavily and probably won't give you a lot of trouble. Against Nidzilla armies, the key is picking one or two Monstrous Creatures and bringing them down. Just like any other army, the key to victory is assessing which target(s) are of the highest priority, eliminating them and then moving on to the next unit.
As has been suggested, little Tyranids should be dealt with by your usual anti-infantry weapons. Heavy bolters, assault cannons even storm bolters will work admirably and clear the board of the little critters pretty quickly. The bigger creatures (like Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants) need a different approach. To start, you'll need to use bigger guns. Lascannons, plasma guns, meltaguns and anything else with a high Strength and low AP will help immensely as it's too difficult to cause wounds with less powerful weapons like heavy bolters.
Unfortunately firepower alone is almost never enough to stop the enemy completely. Fortunately the Dark Angels aren't without their close combat units. Deathwing Terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields generally excel against all but the toughest of MCs as their excellent invulnerable save coupled with their hard hitting weapons make short work of anything they get within smashing distance of. Any unit with a power fist is also a good way to keep a Monstrous Creature on its toes.
In general, I'd advise a list that has powerful shooting but also has the ability to pull off a convincing counter attack.
Hope this helps,
Katie D
A nidzilla list is a rare opportunity to do the old fliperoo on the oppnent. You can outnumber them and assault them. A nidzilla list is most likely a shooty list so do make use of cc infiltrated scouts to tie up pie plates and safegurad your units then focus everything you have on one creature and watch it fall. Better to have one critter dead than two wounded. Katie is right in whta she says, though I would favour more mid range shots over ones more likely to inflict a wound. As good as a lascannon/missile launcher/multimelta/plasma cannon is (and certainly are great against nidzilla) it is still just one dice. It really hurts when you miss. I do like the idea of going on the offensive against nidzilla and thunder hammers and storm shields would certainly do the job!
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