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Bane of Empires
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I've always wondered in what sense of the word, the Chaos Gods have given him power. I think its fair that his biggest strength is the influence and sway of chaos forces to his cause. And though he may have some Chaos Gifts, weapons and so forth, I've been always skeptical of how much Chaos power can really be bestowed on him. After all, he is just an Astartes. He is no Primarch who would be able to physically accept more corruption before its body gave out. The Chaos Gods have also been known to be irresponsible with their gifts, and as such, I'm surprised he hasn't turned to a spawn yet.
Chaos "gifts" are not just physical mutations that have to be endured by mortal flesh, nor are they only weapons or artefacts. Abaddon bears the Mark of Chaos Ascendant (something Horus never did). As per the post AD-B quoted: He is "surrounded by a coil of ever-replenshing Chaos energy, heralded by choirs of daemons of all powers, suffused with the essence of the four great Chaos Gods. To each worshipper and follower he appears different (much like the Emperor…). He is a schemer, a warrior, a self-centred iconoclast and a survivor."

I think Chaos "gifts" also manifest as favour. We have an example of Abaddon being protected from death by the Chaos Gods (being spirited away before Eldrad could kill him, if that footnote of lore is taken seriously). He bears, perhaps, the most powerful weapon in 40k lore. Daemons fear him. Psykers and sorcerers cannot overcome him. He has the allegiance of the ancient Daemon Primarchs. There are overlaps, I imagine, between what Abaddon has achieved for himself and what the Chaos Gods have gifted him. Was he always destined to be "The Despoiler", the one who ushers in the Apocalypse, or did he, through sheer willpower and determination earn the favour of the gods and that title himself? Did he find and acquire Drach'nyen himself, or did the gods intend for him to wield it? Did he assemble the largest Chaos armies since the Heresy by his own grit and determination or did the gods lend their assistance? Etc. I am more inclined to believe, given the Chaos Gods' general disinterest in mortal affairs, that Abaddon has achieved everything he has (which is much more than Horus, or perhaps any Primarch, ever did) by his own doing. The favour and gifts of the Chaos Gods make him powerful beyond imagining, but he only has gained such favour and gifts because he forced the Chaos Gods to notice him, and fight over him. He has become the king-maker of the Chaos Gods by becoming the greatest Chaos champion ever, and by refusing to ascend to daemonhood.
 

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it wouldn't surprise me if it was his sheer willpower and stubbourness, his goal to be the true Emperor of mankind without all the problems being a demon prince might bring. i think IIRC Loken said that men would sing the name of Abaddon as the great protector...he was right on one count, they sing his name, but in fear and terror of what he may one day bring.
 

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I suppose that depends. The Chaos Gods are inherently opposed to one another. They would all have to agree and act in unison to bring Abaddon down. Otherwise, if one or two (or even three) gods act against him, they would effectively just push him into the arms of the remaining god(s) - thus giving that/those god(s) a gargantuan advantage in the Great Game. I don't think they would all agree to act in unison to destroy him because he could give 1 of them such a huge advantage in the Great Game, and his continued existence would be worth the risk for each of them. I imagine, if Abaddon ascends the Throne of Terra, the Chaos Gods would continue to fight over him as they do now, only that they no longer have anything to tempt him with, and how he would react is anyone's guess.
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What your describing is him becoming the God Emperor and basically the Gods realizing that they have no power over him anymore. Does that sound remotely familiar to anyone in the series? The Emperor used them to create the Primarchs and who the hell else knows what else. Once he didn't need them anymore they couldn't control or tempt him. They realized a being with that much power in the material world who didn't have their best interests in mind. The same thing will happen to the Despoiler. He wouldn't have anything without the Gods. Once he shows them he's not their man anymore, stand by for the Great Game to end and them focus on him like they did the Emperor. Only this time it'll be worse because with the Materium becoming like the Eye their power can be felt and projected a lot easier.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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What your describing is him becoming the God Emperor and basically the Gods realizing that they have no power over him anymore. Does that sound remotely familiar to anyone in the series? The Emperor used them to create the Primarchs and who the hell else knows what else. Once he didn't need them anymore they couldn't control or tempt him. They realized a being with that much power in the material world who didn't have their best interests in mind. The same thing will happen to the Despoiler. He wouldn't have anything without the Gods. Once he shows them he's not their man anymore, stand by for the Great Game to end and them focus on him like they did the Emperor. Only this time it'll be worse because with the Materium becoming like the Eye their power can be felt and projected a lot easier.
It would make for a interesting story though, no? Turning things around with Abaddon becoming the God Tyrant and now the Imperium has to try and take the role of Chaos in the Horus Heresy; The guys to take him on and defeat him.
 

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Seriously I don't think Abbadon is near the lvl of a Primarch especially a demon Primarch.
Luther, Kor-Phaeron, and Eugen Temba were threats to primarchs

Luther and Kor-Phaeron were half-Astartes. Temba was a mere unaugmented mortal.

The Chaos boost enjoyed by Abbadon is far beyond those enjoyed by the characters above. I don't see why Ezekyle "Champion of All Four Chaos Gods" Abbadon wouldn't be able to give a non-Chaos primarch a run for his money.

Don't forget Chaos Horus was able to rival the Emperor. Chaos Abbadon rivaling a pre-Heresy primarch wouldn't be surprising at all
 

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Indeed, Temba was a normal human augmented by Nurgle's power and yet he was able to wound Horus ( although it does sound kinda more like a plotadvancement thingy ).

So I think current Abbadon would be able to best any primarch. With exception of Angron. Cause Angron rules. :so_happy:
 

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I would argue it was the anathema more than Tenba, that wounded Horus.
Second. I remember the language even describes how the Kinebrach Anathame blade was jumping and fighting with a will of it's own.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I'm really kind of skeptical of about the power of the primarchs even relative to warped creatures. Primarchs are essentially manipulated creatures made by the Emperor who tricked the Gods. Its been hinted that they are essentially warpish. Which you can buy or not buy. However, Lorgar and Sanguinus both killed powerful Greater Daemons who have thousands of years of experience. But then we have normal astartes with some taint who are capable of crippling them. I feel its a change of fluff.

I understand the idea that fluff was made to favor corruption. But then it seemed they were trying to show how unique and powerful the Primarch actually was. Essentially the Emperor's ability to one up the Chaos Gods.
 

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Well... I think it's more absence of primarchs in modern 40k that games workshop decided that suddenly all potent space marines are capable of primarch kind of feats ( defeating greater demons, etc ) The difference is that it's usually done in form of grey knights who are prepared for such stuff, with their holy and sanctified bullshit.

Primarchs did it via their own fists, like Sanguinius smacking Kabanda or Lorgar beating the shit out of An'ggrath and so on. Plus, some primarchs like Vulkan were showcased llifting and throwing entire armored vehicles like rhino's and more, a feat no astartes is capable of. Not to mention take on hundreds of astartes and more.

I feel like demons became a trashing toy for everyone nowadays.
 

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Or, in Abnett's case, nearly get killed by a squad of Alpha Legionnaires, or have one only kill a single Space Wolf.

There are too many widely differentiating sources - ranging from comparatively impotent "good marines" as presented in Know No Fear/The Unremembered Empire, to the levels where you can actually understand why they are considered demi-gods (as in the majority of ADB's books, and a few others - even James Swallow's Sanguinius was this level - shame about the rest), all the way up to stupidly insane power levels of Primarch's - as in McNeil's.

To then equate that to 40K levels of power where every book has to have a worfism, intentional or not, is ridiculous.



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Depends on what you consider stupidly overpowered. Remember, Angron in " Betrayer " managed to hold a scout titan's leg, prevening it from stomping him.

Now if that's stupidly overpowered or not, it's up to you... I personally find primarch's feats to be more or less something expected of them.

Naturally, there are limits. Lorgar defeating An'ggrath was a bit too much for me.
 

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Corax got a lascannon through his Chest and survived.
If this was First Heretic on the fields of Istvaan V, then he was making sure the las cannon shots were grazing his armor, never hitting straight on. Unless you're talking about a different scene?

John French kind of showed Perturabo kill about 1000 or more Imperial Fists if I am correct.
If you're talking about French's "Crimson Fist" it wasn't 1000.

By the time Tyr's force approached Perturabo's inner sanctum "less than forty stood with him". Of those, at least two died by a dreadnought's conversion beam.

Strange enough, after they down the dreadnoughts, he has 14 terminators and 30 power-armored marines with him. I guess more showed up since the dialogue also says that more Imperial Fists were on the ship than his "less than forty" men.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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If this was First Heretic on the fields of Istvaan V, then he was making sure the las cannon shots were grazing his armor, never hitting straight on. Unless you're talking about a different scene?
Raven's Flight he gets attacked by the Iron Warriors on Istvaan. He dodges most but does get hit. He says its the armor... But he feels the impact and the heat.... whatever right?


If you're talking about French's "Crimson Fist" it wasn't 1000.

By the time Tyr's force approached Perturabo's inner sanctum "less than forty stood with him". Of those, at least two died by a dreadnought's conversion beam.

Strange enough, after they down the dreadnoughts, he has 14 terminators and 30 power-armored marines with him. I guess more showed up since the dialogue also says that more Imperial Fists were on the ship than his "less than forty" men.
Specifics. I was pretty sure it was LOTS. They were on a suicide mission to locate and kill Perturabo. I don't think they spent much time with the rest of the ship.
 
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