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Discussion Starter #1
Trying something new here and want some advice. Just picked up the Daemon codex a week ago and I am trying to put together a list that will be able to defeat SM, Necron and Tau armies in 1 on 1. Playing on thursday with some friends in a mock tourney and those are the races they are probably bringing. so here goes:

Primary detachement(CSM)

Daemon Prince- Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings , P Armour, burning brand, black mace - 295pts

20x cultists - 90pts
19x cultists - 86pts
19x cultists - 86pts

1 oblit w/ MoN - 76pts
1 oblit w/ MoN - 76pts
1 oblit w/ MoN - 76pts


Allied Detachment(Daemons)

Kairos Fateweaver - 300pts

Daemon Prince w/ DoT, wings, P Armour, 1 greater, 1 exalted - 270pts

11x Pink horrors w/ 1 uprade to iridecent horror - 104pts

Screamers x4 - 100pts

ADL w/ Quad gun - 100pts


Total - 1999pts
 

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@Mossy Toes
this is where the lad could use some of your knowledge of the warp...
 

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yeah..the adl seem a little out of place..i can see why you want it but, you could drop that spend some points else where. with good placement your cultists should be ok in terrain.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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*trumpets sound and the cavalry arrives*

Well, for one thing, this list is awfully short for a 2000 point list. About 350 points short, as I count it.

@Nordicus, @fatmantis, I'd argue that Nurged has a good set-up with the ADL, to be honest: after all, the Horrors can be thrown behind it, and when they go to ground, they have a rerollable 2+ cover save. What's not to like?

That said, the squads of cultists... won't do much. They're expendable, cowardly, and poor fighters. You have a squad to hold your home objective in the form of Horrors who won't ever run away, and you certainly have enough points to spare to afford replacing or buffing some of these cultists.

Hmm, how to go about doing that. Well, making one squad of cultists go up to 35 models, then sticking in a Lord on Juggernaut with the MoK, a SoC, meltabombs, and the AoBF would be a good start. You make the unit of cultists fearless and give the Juggerlord a large chaff shield against enemy shooting. And he's utterly terrifying in combat, to boot: essentially 175 points for a Daemon Prince stat line (T5, W4, S6, AP2 attacks) that can move like cavalry and has 5+D6 attacks (plus 2 on the charge). Brutal!

The DP with the Black Mace synergizes nicely with Fateweaver, in case you roll that dreaded 1. A Juggerlord with the Axe of Blind Fury, like I suggested, would beefit similarly. And I'm assuming you're swapping the Codex: Daemons Daemon Prince's exalted gift for the Grimoire? Good set of rolls for Fateweaver to buff, since it'll be rare that more than one of the daemon weapons/Grimoire will fail, so you should get excellent mileage out of the Staff of Tomorrow. Have to love high risk/high reward rolls like that!

...That turns one of those cultist squads into something more than a paperweight (that will run off the table the first chance it gets). You can get away with another cultist squad as a mid-field objective holder (though in that case I'd be tempted to drop it to just 10 models), though that third unit of cultists I'd be tempted to upgrade to something in power armor. Standard CSM are nothing shameful to field, and for a squad of 10 with 2 meltas and extra ccws purchased, they'd be flexible enough to handle most things on the field. Consider it, I say.

I don't think you need that Iridescent Horror. If this list had Daemons as the primary detachment, then you;d be rolling on the Warp Storm table, and I'd be all for that upgrade, as an extra character helps mitigate that chance of a poor roll of 3, and he could possibly be the one to take the 3D6 instability check rather than, say, Fateweaver--which raises a good point. One of the large reasons to get Fateweaver is for the guaranteed Lord of Unreality warlord trait, but with Daemons as allies, you don't roll on the Warp Storm Table. With Fateweaver around, though, you'd be less likely to screw yourself over and more likely to sabotage the enemy with your rolls, so have you considered changing your primary detachment over to the Daemons side of things? You'd have to drop a cultist squad and roll the 3 Oblits into one squad (not to mention scrap the idea I had of adding a Juggerlord), and would have to get an extra Daemons Troops choice, but I think it would be worth it. For one thing, you could bring along a Lord of Change as well, that way, which would be damned fun, for a second Prescience on the board. Or you could take a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh as the other HQ choice, swapping a greater gift for the lash of despair--2D6 S6 shots (higher S if you get Iron Arm on Biomancy) into rear armor makes for some great AA against any enemy flyer that doesn't have rear armor 12.

Just some thoughts to bandy about. First order of business should certainly be bringing the list's points up to 2000--did you accidentally leave out a second Daemon Prince when posting it up, or something?
 

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I agree with Mossy mostly.

I do think the list would be better as Daemons main and CSM allies. this would still allow you to take the stronger elements of your CSM and opens up some more options for your daemons.

Fateweaver I have found completely Lacking compared to a LOC with greater rewards when taken as allies. LOC is tougher, hits harder and is cheaper. BUT if you did switch to main Daemons then His ability to reroll warpstorm and that you have more daemons you can boost means he becomes worth it.

Since Mossy has covered options if you went over to Daemons I will attempt to make some points as CSM as main choice.

Cultists, 3 large squads is pretty much the same as 3 squads of ten, either reduce them or make a large squad useful as chaff (as previously suggested, I run a similar set up with Huron and outflanking Khornate cultists).

Your CSM DP is great though (and dont quote me as i dont have my book with me) I am not sure u can take BBQ AND Black Mace?

Oblits would be better in pairs at least so they dont give away easy VPs in BGNT. Also, the Fluff Daemon that has inhabited my Left shoulder is screaming very loudly at your NURGLE Oblits in a Tzeentch list. Yes Nurgle is slightly better on Oblits but Tzeentch is still useful and is more fluffy, and I would not call you all sorts of names and make comments all game if i was playing you :p

No Heldrake? would pair well with BBQ and other FMC?

Daemons: as said before Fateweaver I would make a LOC if allies.

11 Horrors is cool, dont forget you can still snap fire when u go to ground so they may as well be ur AA unit. try to aim at light vehicles with them so not to give away FNP.

Daemon Prince is awesome.

Screamers I would drop as they are a bit Meh. with points you could probably find some points for that Heldrake!
 

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its in FAQ you can snap fire with witchfires as long as it is in your turn (hense why they cannot overwatch)
 

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yup. Just read it. Snap fire psyk you can, but in your turn only!
EDIT: and thanks to Mossy. He really is a very dependable CSM/Daemon expert
 

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I was under the impression daemons can't go to ground because they're fearless, but I don't have either the codex or the rulebook handy.
 

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Daemons aren't fearless, instead they simply never take morale checks from shooting and take instability checks when losing assault.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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What NathanJD said. They also ignore pinning and the like. So arguably better than Fearless--at ranged, at least.

Your CSM DP is great though (and dont quote me as i dont have my book with me) I am not sure u can take BBQ AND Black Mace?
Ooh, this is true, since the Daemon Prince only comes with one weapon, and you have to replace a weapon to take a Chaos Artifact (unless it's one of the two non-weapon exemptions).
 

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Yay a proud moment for me spotting something mossy didn't lol. And in this list I would therefore recommend BBQ over black mace. U could do with some templates.
 

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And in this list I would therefore recommend BBQ over black mace. U could do with some templates.
While I agree that a Heldrake wouldn't be amiss, I will contest that the Black Mace goes nicely with Fateweaver, allowing rerolls of 1's for the bonus attacks on the daemon weapon, so would argue on that corner.

Still, well spotted that man.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well i feel really dumb, i forgot to add the 2 heldrakes i had to my list when i posted it. which makes up the missing 340 points. Lots of ideas and strategies to consider. crafted a new list based on your suggestions and also learning more about the lists my friends are bringing. Going up against necron/tau allies, red fists or space wolves, and eldar. Lots of armour coming my way so changed list accordingly. Decided to keep chaos main for oblit heavy list in order to deal with it.


Main detachment (chaos marines)

DP w/ wings, P armour, DoT, and Black mace - 265

19x cultists - 86
20x cultists - 90

1 heldrake - 170

3x oblits MoN - 228
2x oblits MoN - 152
2x oblits MoN - 152

allied detachment( chaos daemons)

Kairos fateweaver - 300

DP w/ wings, Armour, mastery lvl 3, DoT, Mastery lvl 3, 1 exalted(trade for grimoire), 1 greater
- 355

11x pink horrors - 99

ADL with quad gun - 100


total: 1997


Planning on slow playing, and making the big moves around turn 3. Deploy oblits first turn possibly keep one squad for deep strike. Focus oblits on major threats from back field, buff kairos with the grimoire and use his spells to support my DPs. Heldrake focused on troops, while dps take out characters.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
@Mossy Toes
Thanks for all the great advice and options! I look forward to trying them all out on a couple different lists. Thanks for help, i really appreciate it.
 

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My pleasure, Nurged. I like the sheer quantity of Oblits you ended up with.
 
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