Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 2 of 2 Posts

· Registered
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've been struggling for weeks to think of a way to reliably beat this army list, but I just can't squeeze a victory out in most games. The enemy list is very fluff oriented, but is also extremely effective against MEQ as it runs a ton of Wraithguard, as the player wanted to make a specifically Iyanden army.

Their list is by no means super competitive, but it such a slog for my CMS to take on. He has 1 Wraithknight and 1 Waveserpent, and then 1 Wraithlord, a squad of 10 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons, a squad of 5 Wraithguard with D Scythes in the Serpent, and a squad of Dire Avengers. His HQ is a utility choice, some kind of Autarch that can Disarm and cast some decent spells to support his Guard unit.

With such few models, you'd figure the game to be an easy task of being on a ton of objectives and consistently targets my Heavy Supports and wipes a lot of them out along with the Wave Serpent, which disables my ability to keep my scoring units safe.wiping out large portions of units at a time, but I feel like that a good portion of my forces are nigh useless for a firefight thanks to the Guard's T6 and 3+. The Knight is also a problem, mainly because it

Luckily, they don't have anything amazing for armor saves, any 3+ can be blasted away by plasma but CSM seems to lack a way to overload on the plasma. Also, usually what would be my toughest troops, Death Guard, Nurgle Bikers, etc., can all be Instant Death'd with relative ease. Multi-Wound guys don't even make a difference in the matchup, so what I'd need is hordes. However, the hordey stuff I can take is still annihilated by D Scythes and the Knight, and since they pose no danger to the Guard themselves, he will leave them alone until he kills my Havocs/Oblits and D Prince if I take one.

What do you all think would be effective units/strats to take these things on? I have a few ideas, but I'm having trouble squeezing the points in to keep everything relatively safe.

· Entropy Fetishist
4,224 Posts
any 3+ can be blasted away by plasma but CSM seems to lack a way to overload on the plasma.
Chosen with plasma are pricey, but you can fit 5 in a squad (plus a champ with a combi-plas if you like). Getting them a chance to rapid fire will be tough, as they'll be enemy shooting priority #1. In a pinch, Havocs with 4 plasma also work.

I find a Forgefiend with 2 HACs and Prescience cast on it, that Daemonforges, can pretty reliably strip a Wave Serpent. Prescience is dead easy to acquire now that 7e is rolling around, albeit harder to cast. Also of note is the fact that the enemy can't Jink unless he wants to be snapping shots. As a downside, there's not a lot such a Forgefiend can target besides that wave serpent--you could also go for the 3 S8 AP2 ectoplasma blasts, which are better than normal plasma for taking out Wraith units.

Daemon allies also bring in the option of a large block of either plaguebearers (Poisoned 4+ being great for taking down T8, plus Shrouded, can get FNP with a herald, and an invuln) and/or daemonettes (fast-moving, bucketloads of attacks with Rending)--coupled with the fact that your opponent probably doesn't have the anti-infantry firepower to wade through those MC-killing units, except in the case of the Wave Serpent and D-Scythes--making them far and away top target priorities if you take, say, 40 daemonic infantry.

I find if a Wraithknight has taken a few wounds, a Black Mace Prince can pretty reliably mop up his face, or take out a Wraithlord with ease. Ah, Fleshbane. Do bear in mind, however, that if the Wraithknight survives to strike back--or indeed, if the Wraithguard get to shoot at the Mace Prince--he'll probably be Instant Deathed. Unless he has those new Biomancy powers Iron Arm (S8 and T8!) or Endurance (Eternal Warrior and FNP 4+!). Of course, a Mace Prince with ML3 is an exorbitant number of points to gamble on getting one of those powers, or not getting insta-gibbed by any enemy attack, and so on.

Have you considered Blastmasters? S8, AP3, ignore cover if your opponent goes for Conceal or something. Their templates can only put one wound on the MCs that wounds on 4+, unfortunately but... that's still a damn sight better than most of your shooting can do.

Heldrake. Vector Striking only gives you one hit now, but that baleflamer will happily torch Wraithguard.

If you don't like the notion of a sorc with Divination, you could go for Telepathy--invisibility and shrouding will both increase the survivability of your Heavy Support choices markedly. Speaking of sorcs, my local FLGS is arguing that the Chaos focus free primaris in your god's power counts as the mandatory power you must take from that god's options, so they are still able to get a focus in whatever other discipline they spec into. I'm not sure how that's going to shake out, but two free Primarises does sound nice for chaos...

The last few games I've played against Wraith eldar, my Sorc has been the shining champions. They've ID'd my opponent's Wraithknight twice and a Wraithlord once. Obviously, there's no guarantee that you'll A) survive their blows [though a 3+ MoT+SoC invuln helps] or B) wound them on the 6+ that you need with a Force Axe, but mythey've certainly come through for me. And I only had a 5+ invuln, not the hypothetical 3+ I just mentioned. Yay force weapons! IIRC the Knight isn't a character but the Lord is, so if you get plenty of ablative daemons or cultists in the way, you might be able to charge in that sorc with the Force Axe without fear of reprisal from the big guy for as many assault phases as it takes to hit a home run. Of course, with cultists they can't hurt the big guy (unlike daemons) and you lack Fearless, so you could well run from the several cultists he's going to squish per turn.

Ahem. Other ways to kill Eldar.

Um, yeah, hordey stuff in the form of allied Daemons might work. Aternatively, say, a Lord of Change who won't be ID'd outright be S10 (yay T6!) and has two Greater Rewards for defensive buffs, plus a Lesser Reward for the delicious +2S on that staff. A S8 LoC charging can put an awful lot of wounds on a Wraithknight, and can also probably survive the backlash, provided it doesn't get wounded on a roll of 6 by a D-weapon then fail its invuln. Another HQ choice would be to take a Herald with Grimoire (yay 3+ invun!) and plop it into a squad of 20 Daemonettes or Plaguebearers, then take 20 more Daemonettes. That's what I would do in your shoes, but of course you probably wouldn't have a similar collection of Daemons sitting around.

I personally love Lascannons for anti MC duty. You might not run up against Dreadknights and Riptides in your area, though, so you don't need the AP2, so spammed missile launchers might serve you well (are lascannons wounding on 3+ worth the 5 more points per model to you? probably not). Also not half bad against Wave Serpents. Telepathy for protective powers, perhaps, and ablative wounds to protect against shooting...

You're probably better looking for a magic bullet than trying to put 6 wounds onto a T8 Wraithknight, because that thing will tank all of your army's shooting for 3 turns and still have several wounds left, if you let it. Blehg. Swamp it in hordey daemons, I say, and make sure you take out the Wave Serpent+Scythes with your HS missile launchers right off the bat.

I know I keep coming back to daemons, so let's imagine a world where they're not an option (*shudder*). Noise Marines--say, a squad of 5 with a Blastmaster or two--would make excellent cheap, Fearless scoring units whose template could wreak havoc on the enemy Wraiths, especially if you catch the enemy player bunched. A Divination Sorc and/or a Telepathy Sorc with ML3, SoC+MoT, and a Force Axe might stand a good chance (or good chances, if you take two of one or one of each--though two might seem like altogether too blatant of list tailoring against him) at Force IDing the big guys, but they have to have some bodies to hide in--cultists, or among the Havocs? Havocs with plasma or missile launchers hiding in ruins are big (or Chosen, for the former weapon). Possible a Forgefiend of some variety for variety, though when it gets in range of those S10 weapons, don't expect AV12 to last long.

If you need to manufacture cover for your Havoc Squads, consider taking an ADL. A 4+ cover save is nothing to sniff at, for all that the Serpent Shield and D Scythes ignore it. All the more reason to take out those two units first, I say.
1 - 2 of 2 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.