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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey fellow loyalist slayers!

When I read about 'juggerlords' I see a consensus that there are only two realistic options for a unit to attach to: spawn or bikers. Spawn appear to be the more popular choice. I was wondering why this is the case. I'm a total scrub newbie, so feel free to explain as if to a child.

Why not bikers? How does one effectively use either alongside a juggerlord?
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Personally i have only run bikes as a escort in my games, as I like the wargear options I can give them. I can make them just the way I want them and give them the role that I need in my setup. A retinue of 5 Nurgle bikes alongside my HQ makes it a fast, endurable and scary unit that can deliver him as the deathblow to any unit the way I need.

The spawns I have never used, as I am the same position as you; I don't quite see why I would use them instead. As such, I will be following this thread intrigued to see peoples replies!
 

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If you use bikers to escort the juggerlord you will have the bikes with a cover save and the lord without. this ensue the focused fire from the enemy and a dead lord. spawns are better for this.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Still, a 2+ LOS! save means the Lord won't be in too much danger, as will some clever placement around terrain and the like. Additionally, the Bikers can go flat out to zoom forward, stringing out with the Lord running behind, to get a charge almost anywhere on the board and drag the Lord there with consolidations. Spawn don't have that mobility. Additionally, melta or plasma plus a number of twin-linked bolters give bikers a solid amount of (relentless) shooting.

Spawn do, however, have the added advantage of being very cheap for the sheer number of wounds you get, making the Lord's unit much more tanky (at the cost of no armor or jink saves). All the better if they're Nurgle spawn for no ID. And you know that the enemy are going to be unloading a crapload of firepower into this unit, so you might as well make it damned tough. The only loss of mobility is the loss of turbo-boosting. Make sure that any Lord accompanying them has a solid anti-tank option, though, as bikers have more AT options than spawn--that is to say, they have some.

I haven't tried running Spawn, to be honest, but I want to. It's high on my "to try" list...
 

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Spawn are the best unit to guard an ic because they synergize so well with our strengths.
Our sorcerers can innately access Biomancy and Telepathy, the first can give the squad feel-no-pain, the second can give shrouded and stealth. Both make the spawn the superior recipient due to having more wounds to take FnP on, and the easy access to terrain to counteract not having a save. I've never had a game where spawn haven't delivered the payload ic where it needs to be.
Bikers, on the other hand, are superior at being more tactically forgiving, they dont hit as hard but have lots of saves, more movement, and firepower. They are excellent flankers and transport-removal. That being said, they aren't scary at all in melee. They're just decently tough. Whereas the spawn(With a buff or two) are point-for-point three times as tough and much much more deadly combatants(s5 and an average of 5.5 attacks on the charge is fucking goofy).

They seem nearly equal, they just do different jobs. The bikers do better at cracking things like terminators and heavy transports. Spawn rip apart infantry like gorillas rip apart puppies, and they shred rhinos/chimeras like nobodies business. They just take a lot more planning and care to use.
 
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I guess every one's "metagame" (I hate that term) is different but everytime I have faced Spawn they have been wiped out in pretty short order.
 

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I dont believe the Iron Arm (or whichever one gives Feel No Pain) psychic power affects the squad. I think it only affects the Sorceror. So the spawn are still left without that save, although Shrouding would still work.

I've never been a fan of spawn though. The lack of a save is just too debilitating to me. A few luck bolter shots can kill a spawn. That's not a worthwhile investment in my eyes.

Go for bikes. They don't have to be all that offensively scary because that's what your lord is there for.
 

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Rattlehead
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Iron Arm only affects the Sorceror, but Endurance gives the unit Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die. I'd personally go Spawn, purely because I like the idea of them as an attack unit more.

Midnight
 

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Personally I'm just happy that spawn are even considered at the list building stage now as before the new codex they were my book stops :(
But the focus fire is an issue for me as i have been caught out by a one at the wrong time and cant roll power armour saves anyway so the bikers main bonus is kind of moot for me :p

Bikers are hardly slouches in melee though with the mark of khorne and icon of wrath but it can be hilarious when khorne spawn roll a 6 for their attacks :laugh:
 

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Why is it that people keep discrediting spawns for not having a save? They have a 1 in 3 chance of a 4+ save in CC. And if we are talking about shooting, why is it your 12" moving, terrain ignoring spawns with fleet don't have a cover save? Are you playing on bare tables or are you just stupid? Seriously though, if all you need is an escort for your juggerlord spawn really are the way to go. They are cheap, fast and often much more survivable than bikers.

Of course, if you want some more utillity, extra tank hunting capabilities or really like the extra shooting bikers are very good. But if all you need is a delivery system spawns are cheaper and tougher. Also spawn hit like a tonne of bricks on the charge. There are few things more satisfying than ramming a juggerlord with spawns into a bunch of terminators. Your opponent eagerly feeds the champ to the lord only to lose half his squad to those stupid looking bulletsponges.
 

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Standard? 3.
Expecting heavy shooting? 5
Mark of Nurgle almost mandatory for Nurgle or unmarked Sorc/Lord.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter #16
This thread is awesome, I feel like so many bases have been covered.

Well, I'm gonna give bikers a shot today, as I don't have any spawn yet. It's also my first objective-based game and first time using the Juggylord as my HQ. I cannot WAIT to splatter some fools.
 

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Out of curiousity, how many spawns would you recommend as a standard delivery system?
4. 3 if you're really pushed for points, but considering how cool spawns are 5 is never a waste to bring IMO.

4 do however seem to be the sweet spot for delivering lords.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter #18
Played against an Iyanden army today, using 5 khorne marked bikers to deliver my juggylord. The bikers unfortunately got wiped in combat and missed all their melta shots/combat attacks, but the lord did some splattering and survived quite nicely until a Wraithknight stomped him out. I didn't do such a great job with positioning my minis, so next time I might do even better!
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Wraithknights are troublesome unless you, say, charge a badly injured one with a Daemon Prince with the Black Mace and kill it before it gets the chance to splatter you back, or something. Alas, my kingdom for Eternal Warrior. (Black Legion don't count)
 

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Well, if those stupid wraith constructs are a big problem just ally in some daemonettes/seekers and watch them die horribly to a bunch of cheap, strenght 3 models.
But if you have to rely solely on your CSM those bastards can get quite troublesome. Havocs and obliterators should be your main men for this sort of thing.
 
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