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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, bear with me. Just dicking around, really. I'm sure I'll edit the hell out of this entry over time.

Warning: Expect this to be confusing, overly complex, maybe overpowered, and probably a little pointless. :crazy: :angel: :crazy:

[Intro fluff here]

Exalted Chosen: 75 points

Exalted Chosen are an Elites choice in a Chaos Space Marines army.
- Limit: 1 unit per detachment

Unit Composition: 2 Exalted Chosen, 1 Exalted Champion

Exalted Chosen: Unit Type - Infantry
WS5 BS4 S4 T4 I4 W1 A2 Ld 9 Sv 2+

Exalted Champion: Unit Type - Infantry (Character)
WS5 BS4 S4 T4 I4 W1 A3 Ld 9 Sv 2+

Wargear:
- Fleshmetal
- Boltgun
- Bolt pistol
- Close combat weapon
- Frag grenades
- Krak grenades
- Aura of Dark Glory

Special Rules:
- Champion of Chaos (Exalted Champion only)
- Favor of the gods
- Fearless

Options:

May add up to two Exalted Chosen: 30 points/model

Up to four models may choose one of the following options:
A.) Replace their close combat weapon with one of the following:
- Power weapon: 15 points/model
- Lightning claw: 15 points/model
- Power fist: 25 points/model
B.) Replace their bolt pistol, close combat weapon, and boltgun with a pair of lightning claws: 30 points/model
C.) Replace their bolter with one of the following:
- Combi-bolter: 3 points/model
- Flamer: 5 points/model
- Combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma: 10 points/model
- Meltagun: 10 points/model
- Plasma gun: 15 points/model
- Sonic Blaster: 3 points/model

The Exalted Champion may take items from the Melee Weapons and/or Ranged Weapons sections of the wargear list.

If the Exalted Champion has the Favor of the gods special rule, he may replace his close combat weapon with an:
- Etherblade: 10 points
- Greater Etherblade: 20 points

The Exalted Champion may take a gift of mutation: 10 points

The Exalted Champion may take Melta bombs: 5 points

The unit may take one of the following Exalted Marks of Chaos. (If they do so, they lose the "Favor of the gods" special rule.):
- Exalted Mark of Khorne: 5 points/model
- Exalted Mark of Nurgle: 5 points/model
- Exalted Mark of Slaanesh: 5 points/model
- Exalted Mark of Tzeentch: : 5 points/model

The unit may take one of the following two options:
- Chaos bike: 7 points/model
- Jump pack: 3 points/model

The unit may take one of the following daemonic steeds for each model if it has the mark of the appropriate Chaos God:
- Juggernaut of Khorne: 15 points/model
- Disc of Tzeentch: 10 points/model
- Rot Fly: 15 points/model
- Steed of Slaanesh: 10 points/model

One model in the unit may purchase one of the following Chaos Icons:
- Icon of Slaughter: 25 points
- Icon of Change: 25 points
- Icon of Blight: 25 points
- Icon of Excess: 25 points
- Icon of Chaos Undivided: 25 points

The unit may take the Veterans of the Long War special rule: 2 points/model

REFERENCE SECTION:

Favor of the gods: This Exalted Chosen or Exalted Champion pays homage to all four gods of Chaos, dedicating kills to each. While pleased, they are also jealous of each other and refuse to grant their vassal boons while he is seeking the favor of a rival god.

At the beginning of the controlling player's turn, choose a single Mark of Chaos to remain active until his next turn. The entire unit must use the same Mark of Chaos.

Sonic Blaster: Range: 24" S: 4 AP: 5 Salvo 2/3, Ignores Cover
- Models with Exalted Mark of Slaanesh only.

Chainaxe: S: user AP: 4; Melee

Plague Sword: S: user AP: -; Melee, Poisoned (4+), Touch of Rust
- Touch of Rust: Weapons with this special rule cause a glancing hit on an armour penetration roll of a 6, unless the roll would otherwise cause a penetrating hit.

Etherblade: S: user AP: 2; Melee, Master-crafted, Specialist Weapon

Greater Etherblade: S: +1 AP: 2; Melee, Master-crafted, Specialist Weapon

Exalted Mark of Khorne: Rage; Counter-attack; Adamantium Will; Hatred
- Replace the model's close combat weapon with a chainaxe. For the purposes of purchasing upgrades, an Exalted Champion may replace his chainaxe.

Exalted Mark of Nurgle: +1 Toughness
- Replace the model's close combat weapon with a plague sword. For the purposes of purchasing upgrades, an Exalted Champion may replace his plague sword.
- An Exalted Champion with this mark also receives blight grenades.

Exalted Mark of Tzeentch: +1 Invulnerable save, Brotherhood of Sorcerers (Mastery Level 1), Spell Familiar
- May not roll to generate a psychic power but instead automatically know the psychic power Doom Bolt from the Discipline of Tzeentch. This is their only power.

Exalted Mark of Slaanesh: +1 Initiative, Fleet, Relentless

Juggernaut of Khorne: Exalted Mark of Khorne only; +1 Toughness, +1 Attack, +1 Wound; unit type changes to Cavalry

Disc of Tzeentch: Exalted Mark of Tzeentch only; +1 attack; unit type changes to Jetbike.

Rot Fly: Exalted Mark of Nurgle only; +1 Toughness, +1 Wound; unit type changes to Jet Pack Infantry

Steed of Slaanesh: Exalted Mark of Slaanesh only; +1 Attack, Outflank, Acute Senses, +3" to run distance; unit type changes to Cavalry.

Chaos Icons: +1 to assault results plus additional effects depending on the icon:.
-Icon of Slaughter: Exalted Mark of Khorne only; Furious Charge, Rending, can re-roll charge range
-Icon of Sorcery: Exalted Mark of Tzeentch only; All attacks have the Soul Blaze special rule, models in this unit count as being equipped with Inferno bolts, Wrath of Tzeentch
-Icon of Blight: Exalted Mark of Nurgle only; Fear, Shrouded
-Icon of Deceit: Exalted Mark of Slaanesh only; Feel No Pain (5+), Infiltrate.
-Icon of Chaos Undivided: [Placeholder], , friendly units Deep Striking within 6" do not scatter.

Wrath of Tzeentch: Once per game, the controlling player can choose to activate this special rule at the beginning of his turn. Until the beginning of his next turn, models in this unit count their weapons as having the Instant Death special rule.




*Added the Limit: 1 unit per detachment restriction.
*Changed the wording for the Favor of the gods special rule. Added the restriction that the unit must have the same mark at any given time.
*Changed the wording of the Daemonic Steed upgrade section.
*Added the Hatred special rule to the Exalted Mark of Khorne.
*Added the Relentless special rule to the Exalted Mark of Slaanesh.
*Added the Spell Familiar wargear to the Exalted Mark of Tzeentch; Added the Doom Bolt power.
*Removed Spell Familiar rule from the Icon of Sorcery.
- Added the Inferno bolts upgrade to the entry.
*Replaced plague knives with plague swords in the Exalted Mark of Nurgle.
- Added a rules entry for plague swords.
*Added sonic blaster to the options section.
- Added a rules entry for sonic blaster.
*Removed the +3" run rule from the Icon of Deceit and placed it under the Steed of Slaanesh entry, as this is already conferred by the Steed.
*Added the Infiltrate rule to the Icon of Deceit.
*Lowered cost of Juggernaut of Khorne to 15 points.
*Lowered cost of Rot Fly to 15 points.
*Lowered cost of Disc of Tzeentch to 10 points.
*Added an extra attack to the Exalted Champion
*Increased the points cost for Icon of Chaos Undivided to 25
*Added Shrouded to the Icon of Blight
*Updated the Icon of Sorcery to include the Wrath of Tzeentch rule.
- Added a rules entry for Wrath of Tzeentch.
*Added the option to take a Greater Etherblade on the Exalted Champion.
 

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like the idea, but it's messy as hell!
Plus: an average guy between the lord and the chosen
Minus: too many options and mods. the mark mods, imo, is dangerous, waaay dangerous

I'd rather give Chosen units an option to upgrade their champion to an Exhalted Chosen, with same stats as the champ, but 2 wounds and Fearless ( cost, maybe +30 pts? )
Then same eqiup oprions as per a Chaos Lord, but no Relics.

The Favour of the gods is good, but as i said, i'd rather not touch the marks. I'd rather say that Favour of the Gods gives: "When fighting in a challenge, Exhalted Chosen may reroll any failed to hit and to wound roll".

I like extra rules to be thin and easy and usually not to modify too much of the original set up...
Maybe we can give him an option to swap Favour of the gods with a "Vetran" skill chosen from a list, like, say, Move trough cover, Tank Hunters/monster hunters and *wink wink* Outflank... all for a price of course (maybe 5 , 10 and 20 pts)

This way he can be our "Champion of the emperor" or a nasty boss for a nasty spec ops unit..

That's my two cents.
 

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Rattlehead
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The wording on Favour of the Gods means you only get Marks during your turn, as 'turn' refers to player turn.

The unit being able to bring one steed needs re-wording to be clear that each model can have one rather than one steed per unit.

The Exalted Marks are kind of overpriced other than maybe Fleet. The Tzeentch one in particular is very poor.

I love the idea though, Chaos should have some shit-scary millennia-old veterans!
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Haha, thanks guys.

I definitely think simplifying things and giving better game-winning rules would be the smart solution, but I'm one of those crazies who actually loves the minutia of upgrade possibilities.

@MidnightSun, I've changed the Steeds/Favor descriptions for clarity. I think I succeeded.

Re-thinking the Exalted Marks. I really really wanted to give the Khornate fellas Rampage with their banner, but that is just a stupid amount of attacks. 2 base + 1 pistol/CCW + 2 Rage + 1 Juggernaut is already 6 on the charge. Adding Rampage would give them potentially 9 attacks on the charge, which is hilarious but probably a bit broken, especially if they have special weapons or Rending. Oh, fuck I know. Maybe Hatred?

@neferhet, I think you're gonna have to wade through my chaotic table of crappy upgrades. I've been too corrupted by our current codex to make this a practical unit. Will you come out alive, or even sane? Muahahahaha! I also really like the idea for our own Champion of the Warp (or whatever), though. I'd love to see your take on that guy. Your homebrews are great. I like the ideas for the more special ops type of unit, but this unit is more about being gratuitous for their chosen god, and providing a proper escort for a mounted lord/sorcerer.

I could definitely use some suggestions with the Icons. Like the Exalted Marks, I want there to be an additional rule/effect or two beyond the standard Icon. However, I'm trying to keep the steeds in mind. For example, a Juggernaut confers the Cavalry unit type, which includes the Fleet rule. This makes the re-roll charge distance rule redundant for mounted Exalted Chosen.
 

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eheh indeed you are mad :p

Suggestion for icon of blight: shrouded
suggestion for icon of sorcery: treat all ccw weapons of the unit as Psionic weapons for a full turn, once in a game. instant death galore...

suggestion for exhalted champion: give the poor lad an attack more!
also, i think you are underestimating the icon of chaos undivided...it will be the one i'd never miss to take. make that 25 pts too, i daresay...
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
An *UPDATED* spreadsheet of attacks/wounds/strength from these guys with the Khornate upgrades. Is this borderline too ridiculous? Remember they have Hatred with the EMoK and Rending with Icon of Slaughter. For some reason I thought I made the Icon of Slaughter give +1 attack as well. I think this chart is fine, for the points cost. Updated again to remove that extra attack.



@neferhet: Good ideas. Added 'em in minus the Icon of Sorcery thing. I'll get to that in a little bit.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
@neferhet, Updated the Icon of Sorcery with the suggested rule. I'm not sure what you meant by Psionic, but perhaps it's the same thing as Force?

Trying to sorta define "roles" for these guys, or at least identify their strengths/uses based on their marks. I think they're obviously a very choppy unit that can take mounts to get them into combat more quickly and increase their survivability with increased toughness, wounds, and/or invuln save. Ideally, in their "finished" state they will have slightly different roles.

Undivided: Jack-of-all-trades type. Etherblade allows for pretty handy champion-killing of T4 opponents. Marks of Tzeentch/Nurgle make them quite survivable while outside of combat, while Khorne/Slaanesh augment their close combat abilities. Bikes, as always, are the best transportation for these fellers, and they can achieve T6 using Mark of Nurgle the way normal CSM Nurgle bikers can. The ability to take power weapons makes them a threat against almost anything. They add the greatest synergy to the army as a whole with the Icon of Chaos Undivided. Precision Deep Strike is something we're sorely lacking, and though it's an expensive way of making it happen, at least it would give us the option. The 2+/5++ non-terminator unit seems pretty crucial for us, given how crappy terminators are in general. They aren't getting across the board for less than 230 points in addition to their cost, while this unit here costs about that much with mounts. There are no wasted points in this unit, ideally. Much as Raptors are pretty pointless, I don't think it would be worth using jump packs. At least there's the option, though.

Khorne: Pretty straightforward choppy chop chop chop. Chainaxes will obliterate armor 4+ hordes quite readily. Hatred combined with WS5 will make for a brutal first round of combat. Add in Juggernauts and the Icon of Slaughter and their killiness increases quite a bit. They can achieve AP2 with Rending, and don't need to spend points on power axes to do so. They might also be the ideal candidate for Lightning Claws. Hatred to re-roll hits during the first round of combat, and Shred to re-roll wounds to hopefully get more 6s. Bikes make for a speedier mount, but the Juggernauts are where it's at. I really tried not making this unit too overpowered simply because it suits my flavor.

Tzeentch: They had to be Psykers. Just seemed way to cool of an idea not to use. Doom Bolt is a good power, but none of the others are worth it whatsoever. The chosen of Tzeentch better damn well be able to pull off casting a power reliably. As for the Icon of Sorcery: Soul Blaze because Chaos, and Force as a one-time chance to make getting into combat with these guys worthwhile. Not that they're slouches in combat, but they might as well be Doombolting things all over the place. Combined with the mobility of their jetbike discs, there's no reason anyone should be getting the charge while they maintain their 18" Doom Bolt range otherwise. They are a threat to most vehicles and definitely single-would high toughness models. They can kill power armor with inferno bolts and obviously double t4 out with Doom Bolt. The increased invuln save due to the EMoT will help avoid being instant killed by S8+ (50% better than 33.3%, anyway), but having a single wound will still see them dying fairly easily. They would of course make a good retinue for a Tzeentch-marked Sorcerer on a Disc. The only problem is that the Sorc has to waste a point on the discipline of Tzeentch, whereas this unit comes with the best power. A ML3 Tzeentch/Divination Crimson Slaughter Sorc could be a very nice choice, or just run him unmarked and put him on a bike. 12" turbo-boost is still pretty good. Well, half as good.

Nurgle: The rotten boys are tough, as always. The plague swords give these guys the ability to hurt high toughness MC and give them a shot at glancing high AV vehicles. Just as likely to wound AV12 as a krak grenade, but more attacks increase the odds of doing so successfully. Can potentially hurt AV13/14 at the same rate, but not likely enough to be overpowered, IMO. The Icon of Blight providing Shrouded makes cover-camping with plasma pretty viable. It also makes T6 bikers jinking with 2+ pretty badass. The Rot Fly makes the cover-camping/shooting build more viable with the ability to move into rapid fire range, pop pop, and then jump back into cover.

Slaanesh: The sexiest of chosen, snorting warp-dust as they howl across the battlefield. I think the combination of Fleet/Relentless/Sonic Blasters provide for a pretty interesting way of shooting some ignores-cover bolter shots while still being mobile. Nothing terribly overpowered, but this keeps them out of rapid fire range of other infantry and still allows them to unleash sonic hell. No blastmaster, because I don't want to step on Noise Marines' toes too much. Steeds allow for some outflanking shenanigans, while the 2+/5++ should do a decent job of keeping 1 or 2 alive long enough to charge (hopefully). This is kinda the iffiest build at the moment. I'm trying to figure out how outflanking 5 of these is, say, better than taking a Lord of Slaanesh and outflanking 5 chosen. The 2+/5++, of course, but they still have to be within range with meltas or double-tap plasmas to really make the whole effort worthwhile. I guess outflanking them into cover/out of LoS during the turn they arrive from reserves and THEN running in, shooting suckers up, and then charging to rape in assault would be something a footslogger just wouldn't be able to pull off effectively. Feel No Pain is good but I need to come up with another rule or two to make the Icon of Deceit worthwhile and obviously an upgrade to the Icon of Excess.
 

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yeah, sorry, meant force...they have to keep the pace of the khornate guys...but it seems out of place to me too. besides, now the crappy one looks slaanesh :p
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yeah, sorry, meant force...they have to keep the pace of the khornate guys...but it seems out of place to me too. besides, now the crappy one looks slaanesh :p
Haha yeah Slaanesh definitely needs buffing. I kinda like Force on the Tzeentch guys, though. Gives them one turn to have a purpose in combat.

For the Icon of Deception, maybe it can confer Infiltrate?
 

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For the Icon of Deception, maybe it can confer Infiltrate?
since you are the "convoluted rules guy" i'll drop you this:
"if a unit has Icon of deception, it gains infiltrate.
If you choose to deploy it using the Infiltrate USR, do not place it on the board: instead, put two Unit Counters on the board (represented by a single Exhalt Chosen model), in legal positions, as per normal rules, and secretly write down wich one represents your unit.
Those two counters remains "undisclosed" until you decide to move, shoot, charge or run with the unit.
Undisclosed counters can be targeted as usual, by every means, but LoS is determined using the single "counter model".
If the shooting/psionic power/effect targets the "null counter" then it is wasted, otherwise immediately place the unit within 3" of the "counter" and resolve the hit.

If placing the unit after the shooting/psionic power/effect is declared causes the mentioned effect to be out of range or out of LoS, then the shooting/psion etc. is wasted.
Any model that cannot be legally placed within 3" of the Counter is removed as a casualty."

SO, you can have a fluffy secret unit, that albeit small (hardly 10 models will fit in a 3" radius) can get an extra 3" of movent if shot at and can possibly waste shooting from one unit. Redeploymnt means also that you can play a lot with the board and with LoS blocking elements. In a word: DECEPTION!!!

EDIT: i know the wording isn't prfect, but i guess you got the idea
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
since you are the "convoluted rules guy" i'll drop you this:
"if a unit has Icon of deception, it gains infiltrate.
If you choose to deploy it using the Infiltrate USR, do not place it on the board: instead, put two Unit Counters on the board (represented by a single Exhalt Chosen model), in legal positions, as per normal rules, and secretly write down wich one represents your unit.
Those two counters remains "undisclosed" until you decide to move, shoot, charge or run with the unit.
Undisclosed counters can be targeted as usual, by every means, but LoS is determined using the single "counter model".
If the shooting/psionic power/effect targets the "null counter" then it is wasted, otherwise immediately place the unit within 3" of the "counter" and resolve the hit.

If placing the unit after the shooting/psionic power/effect is declared causes the mentioned effect to be out of range or out of LoS, then the shooting/psion etc. is wasted.
Any model that cannot be legally placed within 3" of the Counter is removed as a casualty."

SO, you can have a fluffy secret unit, that albeit small (hardly 10 models will fit in a 3" radius) can get an extra 3" of movent if shot at and can possibly waste shooting from one unit. Redeploymnt means also that you can play a lot with the board and with LoS blocking elements. In a word: DECEPTION!!!

EDIT: i know the wording isn't prfect, but i guess you got the idea
Haha, I love it! I guess creativity has its price, but this is awesome.

It's a shame that stuff like this will never appear in the "real" rules.
 

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Haha, I love it! I guess creativity has its price, but this is awesome.

It's a shame that stuff like this will never appear in the "real" rules.
lol, maybe in 1990 it would be ok to have such rules :laugh:
 
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