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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
okay in the dreadnought entry it says I may add a close combat weapon for x cost to gain +1 attack... then it says I can replace one close combat weapon for a missle launcher...

It says nothing about losing an attack...

Does this mean RAW I can have +1 attack and a missle Launcher... would this be a dick move?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
IT says and I quote

"One close combat arm (along with its twin-linked bolter) maybe replaced with a missle launcher for no additonal cost. If the Dreadnought is left with no Close combat arms, its Attacks are reduced to 2, and it is no longer armed with a Dreadnought close combat weapon."

Page 95 Chaos Space Marine Codex.

It says nothing about losing any attacks if it still has a Close Combat weapon. So that means I still get the Extra attack right?
 

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Fair enough. That's my bad for being hasty.

However I'd say that since the +1 attack is for an additional close combat weapon, and you only have one. You would not get the +1 attack.
 

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"The other arm must be armed with one of the following:
-blah
-an additional dreadnought close combat weapon blah blah. This will add +1 to the number of attacks on the profile above"

if you only have 1 DCCW you no longer have an additional one and do not gain the +1 attack

edit: gah too slow!
 

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You get one dccw with the base price of the dread which gives you 3 base attacks as listed in the profile. If you take another dccw (for a pair of dccw's now) it is now 4 base attacks plus a bonus of +1 attack for 2 of the same CC weapons. Exchange one to a ml, you go back down to 3 base attacks. Take two ranged weapon arms, you now have only 2 base attacks.

If during the game you get a dccw arm blown off, you reduce the base CC attacks accordingly and will drop the bonus +1 attack for dual DCCW also.

I think I got that right... correct me if I am wrong please.
 

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AFAIK DCCW do not get the +1 for wielding 2 CCW, but they do get +1 for each DCCW they have, which is usualy included in the profile if they come with 1 equiped as standard (like you said).

If they did that would mean defilers would have something like 7 or 8 attacks! o_O
 

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AFAIK DCCW do not get the +1 for wielding 2 CCW, but they do get +1 for each DCCW they have, which is usualy included in the profile if they come with 1 equiped as standard (like you said).

If they did that would mean defilers would have something like 7 or 8 attacks! o_O
No, Walkers gain +1 for each DCCW after the first. having one just gains you the S10 power weapon attacks.

A Defiler can have 5 base attacks with all DCCWs.
 

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"One close combat arm (along with its twin-linked bolter) maybe replaced with a missle launcher for no additonal cost. If the Dreadnought is left with no Close combat arms, its Attacks are reduced to 2, and it is no longer armed with a Dreadnought close combat weapon."
dont remember when a missle launcher became a CC arm...

if you have a DCCW + missle launcher you have 3 attacks, you get +1 for buying the other arm but your base attacks become 2 from having the missle launcher so total of 3 :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
no not at all it depends on when you buy the launcher.

Since the option to purchase the CC arm is first one can say it goes in this order

CC arm for +10 points = +1 attack bring total attacks to 4

Then replace one arm with missile launcher.

No where does it state in the entry that replacing the arm downs you to 2 attacks unless you no longer have any CC arms..


RAW I get the extra attack
though I think that being that much of a rules lawyer will get me fewer games played.
 

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RAW you REPLACE the DCCW, you don't add an ML. The additional attack is from having an additional DCCW, which is no longer present if you replace it.

FYI, expect a sharp kick in the happy sacks if you try to pull anything like that at a tourney, and probably getting barred as well.
 

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Darklove, that is not what the CSM codex says. Instead of just giving the option for the extra DCCWs and going by the BRB rules for extra DCCWs (which didn't exist when the CSM book was written) it explains it in the list options, poorly.

The lack of an "additional" DCCW would be your stumbling block here, Kurrent.

Kurrent said:
RAW I get the extra attack
though I think that being that much of a rules lawyer will get me fewer games played.
This is the most accurate thing you've said so far.
 

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you might lose a lot of friends that way for trying to dig up cheeses where there is no cheese.

First i refuse to believe the "it matter on the order you buy your equipment" argument and will continue to unless GW say other wise.
Secondly it says "additional", and to me that means you need 2 DCCW to gain the +1 attack that it offers.
Personally i prefer to have dakka dreads (Says the Tzeetch player). As i see it the +1 attack accounts for the +1 attack for 2 weapons, i may be wrong as this is a 4.5 gen codex and i didn't play back then but that is what i have come to see it as.

Edited for GODAWFUL spelling. Really, Jaws take two seconds...


-DK
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
my point is that because I purchased the additional CCW (thus giving me +1 attack) then if I replaced the orginal ccw arm with a ML that I would not lose the attack. The number attacks is only reduced when the vehicle no longer has any DCCW according to the codex as written. So I can spend 10 points get and extra attack and then replace the DCCW and TWB with an ML and still have the +1 Attack. since the netry says nothing about lowering the base number attacks below three unless no DCCWs are present.
 

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But it's no longer in addition to anything. You have a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon.

Timing is not a thing that comes into play when building an army list.
 

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Doesn't matter Kurrent.

You gain the +1 for the arm, then when you take off the other one, your essentially taking off the arm you just added, losing the +1 and adding a ML.

If your going to claim that because you did it in a certain order it's different, even though that makes no sense, then go on to say your doing something as crazy as this because of that.
Your going to become very unpopular very fast.

If someone said that to me, I wouldn't argue, I'd Pack up and end the game, Cannot stand people who try and pull shit on me. Lol.
 

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i've seen things similar before and figured i would ask thats all
an everyone who agrues that has been shot down.
People like says "If i take a Relic blade for my Captain THEN take T-armour i don't lose my Relic blade" they are the cheese huners and most people can't stand those people. (atleast the Libarian Furirioso argument got an FAQ)
 

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an everyone who agrues that has been shot down.
People like says "If i take a Relic blade for my Captain THEN take T-armour i don't lose my Relic blade" they are the cheese huners and most people can't stand those people. (atleast the Libarian Furirioso argument got an FAQ)
I assume what you're referring to is taking additional options past the Librarian upgrade.
In which case, how was there ever any argument?
Even with the Relic Blade thing, it's really quite simple.

You do the upgrades in order from top-bottom, left-right.
You can't buy Terminator Armour after replacing any of your default wargear, since you don't have it; replacing something requires it's there.

And the Dread-barian, you order the options from top-bottom, once you've reached the Librarian upgrade, you can't go back and buy things, and you can't retain them because the upgrade specifies that you replace everything.
 

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Honestly by RAW I think you are correct and why the hell would anyone care about a chaos dreadnought getting an extra attack? The thing is a goddamn smoking ruin BEFORE it touches the table and blows apart your own army, or runs out of cover like a slow kid towards bright lights in traffic.

Plus to get the full analysis of what is correct you'd have to refference the ENTIRE paragraph of options, followed by the core rulebook to see if they contradict. Blindly firing down cheesy ideas is not exactly sporting, one must not only recite the correct ruling, but show why.
 
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