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Discussion Starter #1
Ok so I've been collecting CSM for a long long time, re-painted them a few times but not untill recently had ever had anyone to play with and thus no interest in playing. Now i have a collection of modeles and no idea how best to use them to actually play effectivly. Was wondering if anyone could be of help. (the games i have played have had mixed results)


HQ Choices:

Sorcerer
-Force Weapon
-Gift Of Chaos

Daemon Prince:
-Close Combat Weapon
-Wind Of Chaos

Chaos Lord:
(I have one with and one without a jetpack, but the other stats are the same)
-Power Armor
-Undivided Daemon Weapon

Elites:

Dreadnought:
-Twin Linked Auto Cannon
-Close Combat Weapon w/Heavy Flamer

8 Posessed

5 Terminators:
-1 Powerfist
-1 Heavy Flamer
-1 Meltagun
-1 Combi Weapon
-1 Chain Fist
-1 Reaper Auto Cannon

7 Chosen:
-Power Armor
-Champion Has Lightning Claws

Troops:

Chaos Space Marines:
(9 in each squad)

Squad 1
-1 Plasma Gun
-1 Flamer
-1 Power Fist (Champ)

Squad 2
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)

Squad 3
-1 Flamer
-Power Weapon (Champ)

10 Plague Marines:
-1 Meltagun
-1 Plasma Gun
-Power Weapon (Champ)

1 Rhino:
-Posessed

Fast Attack:

Raptors:
-1 Plasma Pistol
-1 Meltagun
Champion
-Lightning Claws
-Melta Bombs

4 Chaos Spawn

Heavy Support

1 Obliterator

1 Predator:
-Twin Linked Lascannon






I usually use my lord with jetpack as Hq
 

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How many points total is this?

Are there three HQ's because you like to mix and match, or is there a special rule to allow 3 HQ's in a scenario? Honestly, lords with daemon weapons are kind of terrible in this codex.

You have a lot of footslogging marines. It'd be a decent defensive list, but a lack of rhinos for your squads is going to slow your army down big on the offense. As a fellow heretic once told me about my old list, "A footslogging heretic is a dead heretic."

Looks pretty decent though. Happy wargaming :3
 

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Ok i'll run you though what each unit is useful for with pro's a cons so you can write a list that we can look at.

HQ Choices:

Sorcerer
-Force Weapon
I removed the GoC because it's completly optional. Sorcerer's are the "2nd best" HQ for chaos, they are versitile with marks and powers, can be hiddin in a squad and further protected in a transport. They are however quite easy to kill.

Daemon Prince:
-Close Combat Weapon
DP's are the mainstay of the Chaos HQ's, a mere 10 pts more than a sorc and you get +2WS, +2S, +1T, +1W, +1A, Eternal warrior, 2d6 in combat vs vehicles and fearless! all for TEN points! You generaly kit these guys out with wings a mark and a power, never use mark of khorne as even an unmarked prince with warptime is better, which is sad really.

Chaos Lord:
(I have one with and one without a jetpack, but the other stats are the same)
-Power Armor
-Undivided Daemon Weapon
almost 100% of the time a prince will out perform a lord, i think the most interesting setup i've seen is a Slaanesh lord with wings and a blissgiver Daemon Weapon. 12" movement +D6 attacks at I6 causing instant death, but it's very situational. For example cause 1 wound on something like a trygon and it's gone.

Elites:

Dreadnought:
-Twin Linked Auto Cannon
-Close Combat Weapon w/Heavy Flamer
Only issue i have with chaos dreads is thier unpreditability, some people can deal with it but i find it annoying.

8 Posessed
Posessed are just way too easily killed in pretty much any game, any opponent that lets you do damage with these guys will probably have lost the game anyway

5 Terminators:
-1 Powerfist
-1 Heavy Flamer
-1 Meltagun
-1 Combi Weapon
-1 Chain Fist
-1 Reaper Auto Cannon
I don't use terminators, probably because i don't have any, but i do want to, there's a few setups you can go with and each have thier merits.

-Termicides are 3man all with combi-melta and maybe 1 chainfist, you DS next to a high priority enemy vehicle and if you're lucky melta it at close range, if not the enemy has to move away and/or destroy your squad or risk having the chainfist tear the tank apart next turn.

-A balanced squad with a heavy flamer, a pair of lightning claws, a chain fist and as many combi-meltas as you can fit, you can also give them a mark if you have some spare points either khorne or slaanesh i think are most useful for this setup. These can deal with a range of enemies but i wouldn't ever send them against dedicated CC troops with lots of armour ignoring attacks (read: THSS Termies). They should also be placed in a land raider never footslog or DS.

-An interesting setup i've seen is a 3 man squad with just an autocannon as an upgrade, taken as 2-3 squads sat in cover sniping transports, i have no idea if it's worth it but it was an interesting setup.

-Everything equipped with CC weapons, something like 4 LC's and 1 Chainfist and a mark, most likely khorne for the extra attack but slaanesh is nice too for striking first. Again put them in a land raider for maximum effect.


7 Chosen:
-Power Armor
-Champion Has Lightning Claws
i sometimes run a squad with 3 meltas and 2 flamers, bang them in a rhino and depending on setup and opponent may outflank, these i use in a similer fashion as a termicide squad, send them in to do as much damage as possible and die protecting my other units. I think thats the best way to use them as kitting them with lots of CC is expensive and easily countered by most armies.

Troops:

Chaos Space Marines:
(9 in each squad)

Squad 1
-1 Plasma Gun
-1 Flamer
-1 Power Fist (Champ)

Squad 2
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)

Squad 3
-1 Flamer
-Power Weapon (Champ)

You can only take 2 special weapons if you have 10 in the squad, what you could do is take a 10man with 2x flamers + champ with PF giving you some nice anti horde + still able to hurt big stuff with the fist.

10 Plague Marines:
-1 Meltagun
-1 Plasma Gun
-Power Weapon (Champ)
Now we're talking, reduce to 7man, 10 is overkill trust me. It's also bes to take 2x same special weapon so if you can get 2 more PM's with melta and plasma then you can field either 2x melta or 2x plasma. Power Weapons aren't very useful of PM's with thier I3 they'll generaly be going last vs most enemies so the S8 attacks will do more damage and you can hurt dreads in CC. I usualy run 2 7 man squads with 2x melta + champ with fist in a rhino coming out at 256 points, i also have 2 PM's in my case with plasmas should i want to use them instead and also a guy with an icon

1 Rhino:
-Posessed
2 things: 1, Get more, i have 5 currently (1 for each squad i run) 2, no need for possesion, at most take extra armour to keep moving

Fast Attack:

Raptors:
-1 Plasma Pistol
-1 Meltagun
Champion
-Lightning Claws
-Melta Bombs
I find raptors to have the same problem as possesed, they just die way too easily

4 Chaos Spawn
I would never spend points to field a spawn as they are plain aweful, however i do need some models for when i run a heavy gift of chaos list :)

Heavy Support

1 Obliterator
by far the best HS choice chaos has, get more

1 Predator:
-Twin Linked Lascannon
Not much to say, it's a pred, just try not to expose your side armour, maybe take possesion to keep shooting
So from the looks you could make a decent friendly army out of what you have, but i would suggest picking up a few more things such as some extra rhino's, and probably 2 more oblits and if you can an extra 2 PM's with melta and plasma to focus that squad in what you want it to do, i think the biggest thing you lack is ranged firepower, 1 oblit will die very quickly and is a very easy kill point.

If you have any questions feel free to reply and either me or the other nutters that like to hang around the chaos forums will be happy to answer.

*packs his chaos away ready to bop some clowns at GW's vets night*
 

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HQ Choices:

Sorcerer
-Force Weapon
-Gift Of Chaos

Daemon Prince:
-Close Combat Weapon
-Wind Of Chaos

Chaos Lord:
(I have one with and one without a jetpack, but the other stats are the same)
-Power Armor
-Undivided Daemon Weapon

Elites:

Dreadnought:
-Twin Linked Auto Cannon
-Close Combat Weapon w/Heavy Flamer

8 Posessed

5 Terminators:
-1 Powerfist
-1 Heavy Flamer
-1 Meltagun
-1 Combi Weapon
-1 Chain Fist
-1 Reaper Auto Cannon

7 Chosen:
-Power Armor
-Champion Has Lightning Claws

Troops:

Chaos Space Marines:
(9 in each squad)

Squad 1
-1 Plasma Gun
-1 Flamer
-1 Power Fist (Champ)

Squad 2
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)

Squad 3
-1 Flamer
-Power Weapon (Champ)

10 Plague Marines:
-1 Meltagun
-1 Plasma Gun
-Power Weapon (Champ)

1 Rhino:
-Posessed

Fast Attack:

Raptors:
-1 Plasma Pistol
-1 Meltagun
Champion
-Lightning Claws
-Melta Bombs

4 Chaos Spawn

Heavy Support

1 Obliterator

1 Predator:
-Twin Linked Lascannon
Sorcerer is better with lash. Gift of chaos isn't that brilliant; though is funny ;)

Princes need wings or else it will get shot to pieces and never get into range with that flamer power or close combat.

Er, you can only have 3 HQs unless you're listing everything you've got?

Possessed are too random.

Chaos Terminators are good but your numbers are messed up and got wargear they cannot take. Have a read of the chaos terminator tactic link below, it's from my blog ;)

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2009/08/chaos-space-marine-terminator-tactica.html

Don't put chosen into close combat. Chaos terminators are for that. Read this chosen tactica which is also on my blog ;)

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/02/chaos-space-marine-chosen-tactica.html

CSM cannot have two special weapons if only 9 per squad.

I think best think to do is have a read of some of the entries better in the codex and check out the force organisation chart as you've got too many HQ and elite choices and got illegal wargear too.
 

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i believe he was simply listing the models he owns, and asking for adivce on how best to utilise them, not actualy presenting an army list.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for all the help, I've come up with an army list based on your sujestions, i am going to have to proxy most of the additions till i have money again.
going for 1500 pts

HQ

Daemon Prince:
-Close Combat Weapon
-Wings
-Doom Bolt
140pts

Elites:

5 Terminators:
-1 pair of Lightning claws
-1 Heavy Flamer
-1 Chain Fist
-3 Combi-meltas
(cant put em in a rhino, is it best to deep strike?)
205pts

6 Chosen:
-Power Armor
-Champion Has Lightning Claws
-3 Meltas
-2 Flamers
-Rhino (extra armor)
233 pts


Troops:

Chaos Space Marines:
(10 in each squad)

Squad 1
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)
-Rhino

Squad 2
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)
-Rhino
460 pts

7 Plague Marines:
-2 Meltaguns
-Rhino
231 pts


Heavy Support

3 Obliterators
225 pts
(same question as termies)

Thanks again for all the help!
 

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I would give daemon prince a mark except khorne and defiantly give him warptime and your right u cant put them in rhino u can put them in raider tho but i would deep strike them and i wouldn't deep strike obliterators just sit back and shoot them apart from that not a bad list
 

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As i said in one of my previous posts, DSing termies is suicide as every ap2 weapon will be aimed at them that turn. footslogging them they are not a threat untill close and by the time they get close they will be dead anyway.

This is the main reason i don't run termies at 1500pts, it costs 1/3rd of your points to make them effective and all it takes is some ap2 shooting and/or THSS termies to ruin your day.
 

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Ok, glad you've got a list sorted :)

The D.P is better with warptime and should be taken in pairs ;)

Chaos terminators are a bit mish-mash. A bit of combat a bit of shooting. Keep the chain fist but drop the heavy flamer as it cannot hurt tanks like the combi meltas can. Drop the lightning claws too.

Chosen should have all the same weapons as flamer don't hurt vehicles and meltas don't do a lot to infantry. Drop the champion too as it's a wasted upgrade, really.

Troops are all sound :)

Oblits are fine.

Hope that helps mate! Just get another daemon prince, sort out the terminators and chosen and you're ok. TBH I'd drop the terminators as everything will be in a rhino then and you can get that second D.P, if you keep the chaos terminators remember chaos icons on the units so they can home onto them ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ok So heres the revised list, I'm thinking since my dreadnought is really just a pain in the ass i may convert it into a deamon prince, any thought on that, there are some pics of it in my chaos wip thread linked in my sig.

Total of 1499pts

HQ

Daemon Prince:
-Close Combat Weapon
-Wings
-Mark Of Nurgle
-Wind Of Chaos
175pts

Daemon Prince:
-Close Combat Weapon
-Wings
-Mark Of Tzeench
-Wind Of Chaos
-Bolt Of Change
200pts


Elites:


6 Chosen:
-Power Armor
-3 Meltas
-3 Flamers
-Rhino (extra armor, dozer blade)
218 pts


Troops:

Chaos Space Marines:
(10 in each squad)

Squad 1
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)
-Rhino

Squad 2
-2 Flamers
-1 Power Fist (Champ)
-Rhino
460 pts

7 Plague Marines:
-2 Meltaguns
-Rhino
231 pts


Heavy Support

3 Obliterators
225 pts
 

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latest list is solid.

if you increase to 2K points consider giving your CSM squads IoCG and maybe take more Oblits.

i'd run this.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for all the input, going to change my chosens weapons to all flamer (going to be playing some tyranids soon), going to be tinkering around with some upgrades as well, I'll be keeping a tab on my battle results. will be posting pics of my converted dreadnought Daemonprince when its done then when its painted.
-Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well I was finally able to get a game in. It went quite well the list proved very strong. was playing against orcs lost by one point only because i made a stupid tactical move with my nurgle dp and lost him right off the bat, still awesome list thanks for all the help!
 

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it's very validating to hear players do well based on the help Heresy Onliners give you, thanks for reposting, and better luck next time!
 

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Well I was finally able to get a game in. It went quite well the list proved very strong. was playing against orcs lost by one point only because i made a stupid tactical move with my nurgle dp and lost him right off the bat, still awesome list thanks for all the help!
glad to hear you did admirably!:victory:
 
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