Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey Heretics,

Man it has been a long time since posting on here. Lately I have been pouring over Lexicanum and the 40K Wikia, and I got wrapped up in background of the Ruinous Powers, the primarchs and the psychic forces at play in the galaxy. Expanding on the current canon and maybe drawing it all nearer to some new developments, perhaps like "The End Times" from Fantasy (or simply just continuing certain stories), would be really interesting.

When I went back to reading the fluff, something that shocked me initially is just how many primarchs are still alive. I knew that a lot of them ended up in the warp for various reasons, but I also forgot about the mysterious circumstances surrounding some of the primarchs who weren't lost in the warp such as Lion El'Jonson and Alpharius (and Omegon).

Although the survival of quite a few primarchs is not the only elements of the 40k universe that I think could be continued, I do certainly believe that they could especially lend themselves to some pretty serious developments. In addition to the primarchs, I think that it would also pretty interesting to update some of the actions of the Ruinous Powers, or maybe begin/end certain story arches surrounding the Gods of Chaos. One development that would specifically interest me is the possible freeing of Isha from the clutches of Grandfather Nurgle. Something about having to sit in the corner of Nurgle's brewery, drinking liquid, interstellar disease really tapped my sympathy, plus it would be pretty nice for the Eldar to receive such a reliving victory (since as I understand it, the Eldar get pushed around quite a lot).

One of the biggest realizations that I made while going through all the fluff again was just how important psychic races sounded regarding the future of the galaxy. It made it sound as though races such as the Tau and Necrons had a pretty insignificant role in the galaxy, and perhaps not a very big role if the canon was expand upon. Maybe someone could explain to me why or why not this is the case? It's only the impression I got from reading about it and I very well could be just misinformed.

I have one other question concerning the primarchs, or any other factors that could play apart in the continuing the 40K story line. Since I sort of took a break from Warhammer between the 5th edition and 7th edition of 40K I sort of missed the whole "Matt Ward firestorm". I thought I read from a certain source that some of the changes that Ward made to the old canon made it impossible for the primarchs to return? Then again I could be (and most probably am) misinformed.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

My question to all of you is what developments would you like to see if the 40K universe were to be continued? I'm sure there are loads of other developments regarding armies that I'm not as familiar with, and I would be really interested in learning more about what our galaxy could like as a whole if it were allowed to continue.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

thanks for reading and for your responses,

-Big Mek LugNutz
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,978 Posts
One of the biggest realizations that I made while going through all the fluff again was just how important psychic races sounded regarding the future of the galaxy. It made it sound as though races such as the Tau and Necrons had a pretty insignificant role in the galaxy, and perhaps not a very big role if the canon was expand upon. Maybe someone could explain to me why or why not this is the case? It's only the impression I got from reading about it and I very well could be just misinformed.
The tau are an up and coming race and are only getting stronger as a faction as far as lore is concerned.

And the necrons were able to bring the most powerful race to its knees in their prime, and even now in their fractured and semi dormant state have managed to re-conquer small empires worth of worlds. They are proof that psykers are in no way essential to their standing among the other factions.

I have one other question concerning the primarchs, or any other factors that could play apart in the continuing the 40K story line. Since I sort of took a break from Warhammer between the 5th edition and 7th edition of 40K I sort of missed the whole "Matt Ward firestorm". I thought I read from a certain source that some of the changes that Ward made to the old canon made it impossible for the primarchs to return? Then again I could be (and most probably am) misinformed.
I'm not aware of the Matt Ward shitstorm affecting the primarchs in any way. Mostly he made changes to Necron, Blood Angel and Grey Knight lore that a lot of fanboys had a cry over. In the overall scheme of things, not much actually changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
326 Posts
He significantly Downsixed the Threat of the Crons and turned them into a race that could have viable characters and motives. This was a bad thing in terms of theme for me. I miss their old theme, but love the new units.

I am a fanboy who cried over this of course. In the end I like the newcrons, but love the old ones far more, since they intially brought me into the warhammer 40k universe to begin with. If they had been just feuding space egyptians before, then I might have never became a warhammer 40k fan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The tau are an up and coming race and are only getting stronger as a faction as far as lore is concerned. And the necrons were able to bring the most powerful race to its knees in their prime, and even now in their fractured and semi dormant state have managed to re-conquer small empires worth of worlds. They are proof that psykers are in no way essential to their standing among the other factions.
I know that the Tau quite a young and dynamic race, gaining more strength as they progress and adapt, I just wasn't sure if they could ever be a plot important race since they have no psychic presence. In my opinion at least, the ruinous powers would play a huge role if the history of the galaxy were to advance, and since the Tau don't have any psychic abilities they probably would not be able to combat the chaos Gods (assuming you need a psychic presence to enter the realm of Chaos- like the Eldar when they entered the Garden of Nurgle to free Isha).

On the topic of the Necrons, regardless of their new fluff they still don't seem as though they can play a very large role in the galaxy currently, or going forward. From what I have read about the Necrons is that they are somewhat of "doomed" race. Many tomb worlds have been lost, their servos are continuing to age and deteriorate. While they still possess a fraction of their strength from millennia's ago, and that power is still quite considerable, in the long term scheme of things, to me anyways, it doesn't seem like they could be more than a thorn in the side of other, still growing forces. I'm not trying to sound like a necron hater or anything, I've actually collected them and loved them as an army for a long time, but if the 40k universe were to continue indefinitely I think major development would be needed to keep them relevant.

The question I especially want answered is how you guys think that the 40k universe would be expanded. What stories do you want to see completed? Who do you want to die? What mysteries do you want to be solved/given more clues about? From all the different perspectives, from people who have been collecting longer than others, or people who are well versed in different histories and factions I think we could get some really cool responses, theories and discussions :)

-Big Mek LugNutz
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,830 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The idea of the Tau is that they are what the Human race could have been had the Heresy not occured. Without having to rely on Warp Travel without access to the warp in some such, it's like that they take the whole Adapt/Overcome/Improvise to heart and come with some sort of ridiculous ultra-tech to allow FTL travel or somesuch.
That's been my understanding as well, what I'm wondering is, in general, would psychic races play a larger role if the 40k universe history continued to expand. For example, if the Tau did overcome the other races and became the most powerful force in the galaxy, how would they deal with the ruinous power? Would they be able to deal with the gods of chaos without psychic abilities? Can the five gods even affect the Tau since their emotions, feelings etc. are not being projected by their psychic abilities? What I'm confused about is #1) could the forces of chaos manipulate the Tau if they have no psychic presence? and #2) would the Tau even need to be concerned about the forces of chaos if they became the strongest race in the galaxy since they have no psychic connections?

thanks for the responses,

-LugNutz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
326 Posts
Big Mek. What are you talking about? Old Fluff made Necrons a Galaxy ending threat. Slow but purposeful walking endless death.

newer fluff just makes them less endless death robots, and more death robots with a personality.

I've never really felt them to be very irrelevant. Then again I also don't consider Chaos to be that big a deal either. Most everything besides the encroaching nids seems stagnant and irrelevant.

Infact if Non-Psychic races get too powerful Chaos will probably weaken as a result. If the Cron's wiped the Galaxy clean, Chaos would probably cease to exist. Tau probably would have a similar effect.

Less psyker races, or warp sensitive races would make Chaos rather neutered.

Since that will never happen, especially with the Cron Retcons. I see the Galaxy continuing to be in its current state.

I would like to see some more Cron or Tau Developement. Or maybe another minor faction. I am bored of Chaos and the Imperium. Very much so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Big Mek. What are you talking about? Old Fluff made Necrons a Galaxy ending threat. Slow but purposeful walking endless death.

newer fluff just makes them less endless death robots, and more death robots with a personality.
Well I wasn't really talking about the old fluff, and regardless of anyone's opinion of the new vs old, Ward etc., we can only really consider the new fluff as canon anymore. I was just referring to the new fluff, which, to me, sounded as though they had a somewhat limited lifespan in the galaxy as of currently. The fluff explains that countless tombs have been lost, servos have started to turn to dust over the many millennia since their sleep. There are a finite number of necrons, and unlike other races they can't just rub their servos against one another to make more. As I understand it they would need to convert people into machines to increase their numbers. Again, I'm not trying to crap on crons, if anything I'm looking for either verification or some some guidance if I'm mistaken (which is often quite likely.

Also, I don't find Chaos to be a huge threat to the Tau and other non-psyker races, but to humanity and other psychic-sensitive races they feel like a ticking time bomb. For example, Nurgle is constantly designing and redesigning a galactic, psychic plague, releasing each "experiment" on an Imperial world, dooming the whole planet. Also, humanity is beginning to show signs of the psychic mutation more and more frequently, which would result in an increase in the strength of the ruinous powers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,215 Posts
don't find Chaos to be a huge threat to the Tau
Chaos is an enormous threat to the Tau.

One Black Crusade or if Angron decides to pull another Dominion of Fire on the Tau, and the Tau would cease to exist.

They're a speck of dust in the galaxy at the moment. Barely 300 light years across, if I remember correctly.

And remember their are not psychic nulls, they just have weak presences in the Warp.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,978 Posts
Well I wasn't really talking about the old fluff, and regardless of anyone's opinion of the new vs old, Ward etc., we can only really consider the new fluff as canon anymore. I was just referring to the new fluff, which, to me, sounded as though they had a somewhat limited lifespan in the galaxy as of currently. The fluff explains that countless tombs have been lost, servos have started to turn to dust over the many millennia since their sleep. There are a finite number of necrons, and unlike other races they can't just rub their servos against one another to make more. As I understand it they would need to convert people into machines to increase their numbers. Again, I'm not trying to crap on crons, if anything I'm looking for either verification or some some guidance if I'm mistaken (which is often quite likely.
The higher up crons are basically irreplaceable yes, but lore seems to suggest that the lower forms of necron warriors and immortals can be essentially "cloned." One such tombworld exists where all necron memory and individuality has been erased, and the core program designed to oversee and protect them has instead taken control, full on Hal style. Every necron from that world is now essentially a drone and can presumably be replicated without consequence, former royalty likely included.

That example aside, keep in mind that permanently killing a necron is no easy feat, and tends to be the sort of thing that only other necrons (of sufficient technological proficiency) are capable of doing.

On top of this, Canoptek robots can be manufactured at will by any cryptek minded to do so with the same proficiency as creating wargear. The necrons' military might is by no means strictly limited by the number of actual necrons at their disposal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
326 Posts
They can just build more basic Crons. Like Serpion said, only Royalty are "irreplaceable" but not in a literal sense, just in a meta-physical sense of their personality.

Crons can repair and rebuild indefinitely with sufficient resources. The only real limitation for crons right now is their political divisions, which keep them sorta in check in terms of power in the Galaxy. As for the worlds that have been lost, from what I read that really hasn't done the Cron's too much harm, as its not really a majority lost, its just some. The slow wake up protocols are the other big hinderance as most of the Crons are still slumbering I believe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
They can just build more basic Crons. Like Serpion said, only Royalty are "irreplaceable" but not in a literal sense, just in a meta-physical sense of their personality.
So… they don't begin to lose their sanity and become mindless? As I recall, from the fluff in the Codex: Necrons, sure Necron Warriors can be repaired, but they lose their functionality slowly, eventually become completely mindless, irresponsive metal bodies. That was how I understood it as well.

Another threat to the lifespan of the Necrons is the blood plague (I forget the exact name). Maybe it's called the flay…? I forget. Anyways, this is another flaw in the Necron race, if they are to survive for millennia more. Apparently it is a great threat, with Szarekh stating that, "sooner or later we will all be lost to madness."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
326 Posts
So…? They don't begin to lose their sanity and become mindless. As I recall, from the fluff in the Codex: Necrons, sure Necron Warriors can be repaired, but they lose their functionality slowly, eventually become completely mindless, irresponsive metal bodies. That was how I understood it as well.

Another threat to the lifespan of the Necrons is the blood plague (I forget the exact name). Maybe it's called the flay…? I forget. Anyways, this is another flaw in the Necron race, if they are to survive for millennia more. Apparently it is a great threat, with Szarekh stating that, "sooner or later we will all be lost to madness."
I've read both Codexs old and new and the closest I can see to what you mean is how run down tombworlds get during their slumber, they don't activate then dwindle, they dwindle and need to be refurbished and get their world fully operational again. They don't slowly degrade when they are active. It is true they are going mad due to malfunction in their protocols that keep their former personalities intact.

The Destroyer Virus(Condition or whatever) is what all Necrons have to deal with, it seems to be a condition where-by they lose touch with their personality and they become mindless killing machines (Which is probably their bodies natural state before they crammed their minds inside them). Side effects include replacing limbs with big ass guns, and hoverplatforms instead of legs.

The Flayer Virus is another beast altogether, and from what I read it in no way changes lifespan, something I don't think they have at all to behonest. It does however destroyer their mind completely and increase the necron's subtle desire to have flesh by warping this into a bestial need to take flesh and attempt to feed on flesh, and cover themselves in the stuff.

I don't see the immortal robot race as dying, I see it more as lingering and slowly waking. In terms of fluff, the quality and condition of Dynastys and tomb worlds depends on entirely on situation, resources and how the flulff wants to depict them,like every other race in the game. I just don't really agree with them being a dying race, as ironic as that sounds. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Reading through the codex again I can't seem to find any bits about Necrons losing their ability to function through phasing out, but I could have sworn that I read something about it when I first got the codex. Any help confirming that would be great, but I'm probably just not remembering it correctly in the first place.

Oh, and don't get me wrong. The Necrons are not a dying race by any means. I love the Necrons and would hate to even admit that they aren't one of the strongest armies in the galaxy right now. I'm just saying that if the galaxies fluff were to continue they might eventually become infested with the flayer virus, lose tomb worlds (the ability to phase their warriors back to safety) etc. It was just a thought and by no means "going to happen". My knowledge and opinions of 40k are not infallible by any stretch, I'd be the first to admit that.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top