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Discussion Starter #1
I have recently grown interested in some of the older fluff, and must say I love Huron. That said, is it likely we will see more on them from BL this new year?
 

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It is interesting to note that the CSM Fluff is heading back on the up-turn after taking a few month hiatus. I don't read CSM too often (as all the "Blood for the Blood God" drives me up a wall) but I know that there are three main figureheads. Abaddon, Huron, and Fabius Bile. Of these three I think Huron is the most drooled over; mainly for the rogue'ish character that he has developed into.

From my understanding he was not a typical Choas convert, but rather a open Rebel against the Imperium and his fellow Astartes. He managed to gather forces of fellow Astartes Chapters and almost, very slim almost, managed to trigger another Heresy event. He stands outside the power of the Imperium, yet is not fully corrupted by a Choatic power. He is just the devilish Rogue with a evil and hidden agenda.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Don't know really, with the Badab War books being covered by FW they seem to fall in FW's camp to develop, that said that is really the Astral Claws side of things rather than the Red Corsairs. I mean he has been mentioned "recently" in ADB work and is pretty corrupted by chaos which is different to what he was like during the Badab War (obviously), they are probably just waiting for an author to take an interest in him. Maybe ADB will after he is done with Abaddon.
 

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I mean he has been mentioned "recently" in ADB work and is pretty corrupted by chaos which is different to what he was like during the Badab War (obviously), they are probably just waiting for an author to take an interest in him.
So he is offically corrupted now Jacobite? I was thinking he had jst withdrawn to a new hideout and had been healed.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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I know for a fact that he falls to Chaos after the Badab War since at the latest 2006 due to the IA article published on him and I suspect he has always been so (since 1989 when the Badab War was written in). I don't have a copy of the Warhammer 40,000: Compendium from 1989 though so I can't confirm it. Maybe somebody who does can. As for recent sources look at Blood Reaver by ADB, the Chaos Codex or just look at his mini, how many chaos icons and stars has he got? His rules also include "Champion of Chaos" and "Veterans of the Long War", both Chaos special rules.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I'm not the biggest fan of Huron.

It seems like, just an edition ago, he was the poster-boy for Renegade Space Marines. The story of his fall was an interesting one, and his status following his exile to the Maelstrom seemed fitting giving the realities of the universe he lived in: his signature victory was the capture of a Space Wolves strike cruiser.

Fast-forward a little while, though, and Huron has suddenly been built up to the point where he's (seemingly) second only to Abaddon in terms of power - insofar as Space Marines are concerned.

Isn't that a bit ridiculous? Think about it for a second. The capture of the Wolf of Fenris was qualified as "his greatest prize". This happened an indeterminate amount of time after 912.M41, which was when the Badab War ended. His force consisted of what was left of his Chapter and its fleet, plus a number of captured merchantmen that had been converted into ad-hoc warships.

Now, take into account that Huron had once been the master of a super-sized Chapter (three times the size that the Codex allowed for) and the acknowledged Primus Inter Pares of a coalition of Chapters responsible for guarding against the horrors of the Maelstrom. When he went renegade, three other Chapters followed suit. In less than a decade, the Imperium had squashed his revolt and sent him fleeing into the Maelstrom with only a fraction of his remaining forces.

In the ninety years that followed, though, Huron "has grown his group of renegades as large as the Space Marine Legions of old." He has "dozens of cruisers" at his disposal. He has become not just a warlord, but a power-broker in his own right, providing the likes of Honsou entire armies with which to invade Ultramar.

The part of all this that is so difficult for me to swallow is that Huron Blackheart became much more dangerous to the Imperium after the Badab War with far less resources than those he had before it. I can't help but feel that his notoriety and power is out of scale from what it was once intended to be... and that the justifications for it are just too broad, vague, and unconvincing. :(
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I honestly don't now how many Space Marines Huron has under his command. If he has 20,000, then I have even stronger feelings about where he's at in terms of his power.

Again, I'm not opposed to Huron being this very powerful warlord. I'm simply less than impressed at how Huron went from A to B. The more powerful he is at this point, the more jarring it is... given the utter lack of background on how he gained all this power.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing crucial material.

I'm familiar with last edition's Codex: Chaos Space Marines, which outlines the capture of the Wolf of Fenris by Huron and describes the state of Blackheart's force. I'm also familiar with the Imperial Armour books on the Badab War. I remember the Fall of Vilamus from last edition's Core Rulebook, as well. And finally I've read Blood Reaver, The Gildar Rift, and "The Skull Harvest".

That's my context for the character. And honestly, it feels like he goes from this hard-bitten survivor, pirate, and renegade to someone with unbelievable power.
 

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In ashort story from Graham it has been explained how Honsou got his army to invade ultramer near 999 (I think, fesival of skulls or something ?). This army was pretty sizable, I do not know the exact number of marines but enough to start a small crusade. Based upon the impression I got from gildar rift, Pandorax and red corsair, I would say he does not give away this army too a potential enemy if he does not have a significant army himself. Based upon the description in the short story (and red corsair) he is very powerful indeed and up into his neck in chaos.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I honestly don't now how many Space Marines Huron has under his command. If he has 20,000, then I have even stronger feelings about where he's at in terms of his power.

Again, I'm not opposed to Huron being this very powerful warlord. I'm simply less than impressed at how Huron went from A to B. The more powerful he is at this point, the more jarring it is... given the utter lack of background on how he gained all this power.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing crucial material.

I'm familiar with last edition's Codex: Chaos Space Marines, which outlines the capture of the Wolf of Fenris by Huron and describes the state of Blackheart's force. I'm also familiar with the Imperial Armour books on the Badab War. I remember the Fall of Vilamus from last edition's Core Rulebook, as well. And finally I've read Blood Reaver, The Gildar Rift, and "The Skull Harvest".

That's my context for the character. And honestly, it feels like he goes from this hard-bitten survivor, pirate, and renegade to someone with unbelievable power.
Hmm, I would agree with that (And I also believe those are the main fluff sources that have been written thus far for the AC/RC correct?

That said, I suppose the only way to know is to wait until we get more novels on the character (He had a new warlords piece released not too long ago) and his popularity seems to be there, what do you think?
 

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In the ninety years that followed, though, Huron "has grown his group of renegades as large as the Space Marine Legions of old." He has "dozens of cruisers" at his disposal. He has become not just a warlord, but a power-broker in his own right, providing the likes of Honsou entire armies with which to invade Ultramar.
I just ignore that stuff as rulebook/codex hyperbole. The Red Corsairs going from a few hundred Astral Claws survivors to a force to rival the First Legions in less than a century? Bwahaha. In Blood Reaver, Huron enlisted the Night Lords because a direct assault on the Fortress Monastery would have ended with the Red Corsair fleet being blasted from the skies. That does not sound like "as large as the legions of old" to me.

I find it funny that some people dismiss the lore in the black library books because they think that it's somehow "less legitimate" than the codexes, since I'm pretty much of the opposite opinion. I prefer the black library lore because on the whole it's not as outrageously exaggerated as the stuff in the codexes.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I dig the Black Library novels, don't get me wrong. In this case, though, they've contributed to the phenomenon we're discussing. Starting with "The Skull Harvest", Huron Blackheart went from hard-bitten survivor-turned-pirate to "mega warlord" who is many times more powerful than he was prior to the Badab War.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So, it seems the next fluff will (hopefully) lay out how Huron is able to grow/maintain such a force, which is most likely

A) Huron had more Astral Claws around/alive or that later he gets more/retains more?)

B) There is a fluff piece I remember reading where he was also housing the Tiger Claws chapter and possibly other descendants. Could these in-hidden chapters also be a reason for the Red Corsairs strength?
 

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Only having nominal familiarity with either the Badab War or Huron Blackheart, it blows me away that BL would have him with 20,000+ marines... Christ on a Crutch! Is the only reason he hasn't played patty-cakes on the Imperium not having a naval presence that can launch him free to play in the galaxy? At this point he is unequivocally one of the Imperium's most dangerous opponents. Even the Nids only merit seemingly less than a dozen or so chapters at a throw, but this dude's ready to play with a couple dozen.
 

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Dont forget that the Red Corsairs accepts space marine renegades of all stripes. Which is a major reason for their forces swelling.

Astartes craves the bond of brotherhood with other marines, and if they are exiled, or otherwise lonely, it can be easy to accept Huron's offer.
 

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I think the Warp's non-linear time has something to do with it. We know the Badab war happened less than 100 years before the 13th Black Crusade, yet the Flayer notes that the Red Corsairs have become just as corrupted as any of the original Traitor Legions in mere "centuries" in the Maelstrom.
 

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Dont forget that the Red Corsairs accepts space marine renegades of all stripes. Which is a major reason for their forces swelling.
So does the Black Legion, which has not grown notably since the Heresy, which is a far longer than the Red Corsairs have existed.

Plus, that requires that an entire Legion's worth of Marines have defected in one area of the Imperium in only a century. Surely such a loss would be notable.

I think the Warp's non-linear time has something to do with it. We know the Badab war happened less than 100 years before the 13th Black Crusade, yet the Flayer notes that the Red Corsairs have become just as corrupted as any of the original Traitor Legions in mere "centuries" in the Maelstrom.
Corruption isn't a strictly linear thing though. The Traitor Legions themselves are not a consistent level of corruption and I would say its due more to the individuals tie to Chaos. The Red Corsairs may simply be more fanatical followers of the Gods than some of the Traitors (not hard given that some are basically atheist). It also seems that corruption doesn't occur at a constant rate. For example: the difference between the Emperor's Children from pre-Istvaan III to the events of Angel Exterminatus versus the difference between the post AE and modern. I'd say that corruption opens with a bang and then tapers off, so it may not take all that much time to become 'fully' corrupted.
 
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