[Uilleam]

Well, the day has finally come when I venture into the unknown. My Chaos playing brethern will curse my name but I've decided to make a jump to the Loyalist side. :shok: Having over 6000 points of World Eaters (and maybe even more of Tyranids), plus an 1850 point Khorne Daemon army, I'm in search of something new to cut my teeth on.

I'm looking for something I can take to tournaments, but still satisfies the fluff, so I have forgone Heavy choices and focused on Infiltration and DS. Here's what I've come up with. What do you guys think? Be gentle, I'm a Loyalist Space Marine virgin :blush:

Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike 195 points

Chaplain 115 Points
- Jump Pack

Dreadnought 170 Points
- Multi-melta, Heavy Flamer
- Drop Pod w/ Deathwind Missile Launcher

Scout Squad (5) 115 Points
- Sniper Rifle (4), Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks, Teleport Homer

Scout Squad (5) 100 Points
- Sniper Rifle (4), Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

Tactical Squad (10) 240 Points
- Meltagun, Lascannon
- Drop Pod w/ Deathwind Missile Launcher

Tactical Squad (10) 240 Points
- Meltagun, Lascannon
- Drop Pod w/ Deathwind Missile Launcher

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5) 245 Points
- Sergeant w/ Powerfist
- Lightning Claw (4), Jump Packs (5)

Assualt Squad (10) 215 Points
- Sergeant w/ Power Fist

Assualt Squad (10) 215 Points
- Sergeant w/ Power Fist


1850/1850 Points

I figured sticking Shrike, the Chaplain, and the Vanguard squad together would be a fairly potent mix :wink:

 

[Uilleam]

Awww... come on guys. No love for the Raven Guard? How's a guy suppose to decide between 2 armies if one army gets ignored? :wink:

 

[Drizzt_13]

Assault marines are pretty terrible, they just don't have a big enough offensive output to really be worth it. Try using them as counts as blood angels if you're devoted to using them.

 

[Ignatius Hadrian]

I like the idea of someone playing raven guard at last. They're even more rare than my Dark Eldar. One thing does strike me as less-than-fluffy, and that's having lascannons in your regular squads. Something about a heavy weapon you have to stop to use doesn't sound like something they would have a lot of.

From a purely play-to-win standpoint, I think it makes sense that you want to have some of that extra punch in your army, though. So don't take them out on my account.

 

[CLT40k]

So what elements are considered "Fluffy" for the Raven guard?

Personally, I don't think you have enough shooty elements to make this list competetive...

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

I for one, commend on you on the attempt; a lot of people like the Raven Guard, but no one gives a shit about them to try an really represent them on the board.

The problem is the line of thought that “Raven Guard = You MUST take Shrike” and when you don’t your list isn’t “fluffy”. The other problem is that Shrike is a great character, and he has some mean stats, but he has a jump pack he can’t take off, so:

-to put him with termies is a potential fail as he then can’t sweeping advance, though Shrike + Infiltrating, Fleeting TH/SS is potentially devastating.

-putting him with Sternguard means he can now sweeping advance, but now he’s slowed because Sternies can’t have jump packs

-putting with Vanguard is way expensive for one squad (look at your Vanguard point costs; you’ve spent a Land Raider’s worth in points on five guys that will get owned by Berzerkers, Genetealers, or Banshees)

-and Marine assault squads, frankly suck when compared with other CC specialists.

This is an idea, though not necessarily not a good one:

Keep Shrike.

Consider dropping the Chappie for a MotF with a Conversion Beamer, or Khan.

Keep the Dread, drop the Deathwind.

Keep one Scout squad, but rather, expand it add a sgt. with a combi-weapon of some kind. Five Scouts can be killed by a flamer much too easy. Attach the MotF here if you take him.

I like the Tact squads, but I would put them in Las Razorbacks or even rhinos, give them ML, and the sgts. PF. if on Lazerbacks. Keep the LC's if in rhinos.

Give the squads homing beacons/teleport homers (whichever gear works for deepstriking)

Between your Vanguards and Assault squads, you have 675 points to use.

I would take gobs of termies.

Take one squad of standard termies at 10 termies, add two CMLs. Combat squad so that you have both CMLs Infiltrated, in cover, with Shrike. That should give you 4 mid-field ML shots in cover.

If you take the MotF, bolster their defenses: now you have an anvil unit that has 2+, 5++, and 3+ cover saves. If you don’t take MotF, you still have a 4+ cover save. This goes against what I said earlier on Shrike + termies, but at least now Shrike can be a pain the ass in cover with some hard to knock down ablative wounds. Attach the termie sgt. here you want to mess with wound allocation more.

Deep strike the other part of that unit. May not be that great, but dang it if 5 storm deep striking storm bolters is a good distraction, especially if attached to termies.

I would then use Sternies in a LR as then you have a unit that can disembark, fleet, and still assault. If you don’t go with the MotF I’d think about using Kor’Sarro Khan, but use him to give your Sternies Furious Charge (TBH, this would work with Vanguard some, but the awesome munitions Sternguard are simply too good to pass by).

so 2" disembark + 6" move + 1" to 6" Fleet + 6" assault = 15"-20" assault move with 3 attacks per model with FC.

Kit them out with combi melta/flamers and a PF. so you can shoot the combi part of the weapon and still assault. Last thing on Khan: don’t use his special rules for your army list, use him as a squad upgrade, anc check to be sure if can do the Furious Charge thing without his bike; i don't have my codex on me :scratchhead:.

You may even want to drop the Podnought at this point as you’ll only have the one, and he could be a points sink or really awesome.

good hunting.

 

[World Eater]

Hail,

Its like this. Raven Guard are fine. 5th ed. Space marine codex doesn't do a lot for fluff players(other than Ultramarines and even then there are some disgusting possibilities). For an example: A new player chooses to play 'Raven Guard'. He will state that the codex allows him to have a black-and-white Marneus Calgar as his 'Raven Guard' HQ, and be considered fluffy.
I consider myself very much into 'background' or 'fluff' and rely heavily on 2nd ed codexes and the 3rd ed Index Astartes. I haven't given much read on the Raven Guard article(I'm going too very soon).
I respect that you are basing a potential new army based on story and flavour(you will have more fun in the long run), continue to read as much as possible ( that is also another great form of fun as you make new discoveries and try to make them reality on the tabletop).

BFTBG!!

World Eater

 

[Uilleam]

I am definitly gonna try to impliment your advice guys and see what I can come up. I've never really tried to build a loyalist army before so I really appreciate the help! I'll put a list together later tonight and see what you guys think. :grin:

 

[CLT40k]

Problem with "staying true the the fluff" is really dependant on your environment. If you're playing a narrative list against competative players, it won't be much fun for either player... Likewise is true.... a ball breaking list isn't that much fun if everybody else is playing inefficient or "fluffy" lists...

Both sides of the coin are right ways to play the game...

IMO, the thing that really makes your chapter special is the hours you spend paiting it. After spending 2-3 evenings on your Vulcan model for your Ravenguard list... you'll think about how he's just another captain whose troops have specialized towards a certain type of warfare... Maybe they adopted all this when cleansing a Nid infestation from an Imperial Hive world... where flamers rock cause of the tight spaces..... But if that thought just makes you itch... then you might fall into "the other camp" (Fluff Nazi) and should look for a more narrative style of play...

The awesome thing about Codex marines, is that it gives you a number of different builds that are both fun and competative....

 

[CLT40k]

Here was my take on Shrike at 1850

Other than putting in Vanguards, this was not built with any background....

Shrike
10 Vanguard Vets -
3 Rifleman Dreads
3 Autolas Predators
2 5 man tac squads in Razorbacks with TL Las or Las/plas
2 Scout squads with Sniper, Camo cloaks and ML

8 Ranged threats, 4 scoring units, and the big Shrike Rock for 1685 - use the rest of the points to kit out the vanguard vets....

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

CLT40k's idea is rather damn lovely (no sarcasm), but balls if that Vanguard squad is expensive. i fiddled with it in Army Builder and found out that:

you're looking at 300 points plus for ten Marines with jump packs and maybe a couple of PWs and PFs.

i'm leaning toward the termie idea more: love the invulnerable saves.

good hunting.

 

[Uilleam]

Man, this is so frustrating! :ireful2: Previous SM Codex the Ravenguard were very limited when it came to transports and especially Heavy Support choices. But they had lots of Furious Charge. Everything I've read about the Raven Guard does say they can field anything like any other chapter BUT they rely mostly on scouts and surgical strikes (ie infiltration, DS, and pods) to accomplish their tasks. Not heavy hitters. I am considering swapping out the Preds for tons of speeders. And how do you pass up Infiltrating and Fleeting TH/SS termies!? :wacko:

I can see why I read lots of people use the Blood Angels as their basis for Raven Guard. But I find that very unsporting.

 

[Uilleam]

Something like this though I'm still somehow unsatisfied with it. I guess I don't think of it as "...Shrike and his Company might be lurking out in the darkness, just waiting for the correct moment to strike." I dunno. Pick it apart! :victory:

Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike 195 points

Terminator Assualt Squad (5) 200 Points
- TH/SS

Dreadnought 145 Points
- Twin-linked Lascannon, Missile Launcher

Dreadnought 145 Points
- Twin-linked Lascannon, Missile Launcher

Tactical Squad (10) 220 Points
- Meltagun, Lascannon
- Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (10) 220 Points
- Meltagun, Lascannon
- Drop Pod

Scout Squad (10) 180 Points
- Sniper Rifle (9), Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

Scout Squad (10) 180 Points
- Sniper Rifle (9), Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

Land Speeder 70 Points
- Multi-melta, Heavy Bolter

Land Speeder 70 Points
- Multi-melta, Heavy Bolter

Land Speeder 70 Points
- Multi-melta, Heavy Bolter

Devastator Squad 150 Points
- Missile Launcher (4)

1845/1850 Points

 

[CLT40k]

So I think you have enough shooty elements to keep up... but it's a little on the low end IMO... but my play style is to shoot the hell out of everything and then multiple assault what's left... so what works for me may not be what works or is fun for your.... In terms of critique of the list... I think it's alright... In looking at what you have.... I might think about dropping the scouts down to 5 man units to free up enough points to drop in another Dev squad...

Also, I think the Typhoon is a better build for speeders since it allows you two shots from 48" along with a suicide multi melta.... but if they're already built then no worries... they'll just have to be more aggro.

I would experiment with the Las cannons in the drop pod.... but my gut feeling is that you won't have much opportunity to have them shoot (since they'll count as having moved the turn they drop...) But could be really annoying if you drop them on a flank and let them shoot into side/rear armor... ie, keep them out of danger... but even then, it's a lot of points for a couple of shots a game... You might consider, melta/flamer and combi-melta on the sarge instead to give them more of a threat potential the round they drop...

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

this list is certainly better, IMO. the idea of another Dev. squad is pretty good, and remember you can alway combat squad the tact. squad so you can have a drop element and more static fire support at home objective.

good hunting.