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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Are command models vital for missile troops? I am starting four armies to introduce my kids and wife to gaming. I will be building all four armies, so there are piles of plastic laying around, and on the missile troops sprues are command elements.

My question is, do I need a standard bear, musician and command fig in these units? I haven't played much WFB, and it has been years since I have, so I am at a loss to answer this. Specifically the armies are High Elves, Wood Elves, Brettonia and Empire. Do any of these benefit from one or more of the command models? Should I just make the units full missileers and be done?

Thanks for the help!

KT
 

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Command is up to you, For example the champions (sargents for you 40k'er) has a higher BS than the normal troops. Most people leave standards alone on rangd units. Musicians is more a personal preferance.
 

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It depends for Ranged units. If Champions give a Ld upgrade, and are a decent cost (10-15pts), then yes, I'd do it. Musicians ALWAYS, but Standards, pretty much never, unless they're decent in combat (such as Dwarf Quarrellers or Thunderers).

Wood Elves, pretty much never. You have decent movment so can always scoot away, so shouldn't be in combat. (Musician only)
High Elves - only for Seaguard (Full Command)
Bretonnia - could be a rare example when I say yes. If they keep a Knight unit close by, it's the difference between losing a battle line or not. Steadfast Archers with a KotR unit nearby will definately hold up against an enemy unit. (Full Command)
Empire - on Handgunners, I wouldn't take a Standard, but a Champion gives you an additional Long Rifle, which is always good (for an extra cost, though). (Champion and Musician only).



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Since this seems to be a family project, I'd go ahead and assemble the command figures. If the unit doesn't have one of the upgrades, put them in the rear rank (if present) and take them as first casualties.
As to their effectiveness:
Champions are iffy. Except where the champ can have different equipment, the +1 BS is rarely worth the points.
Musicians are a definite must. +1 LD to rally, tie breaking in combat, and quick reform are all worth the few points you'll spend.
Standards are actually worth taking now. They only give up an extra 25 vp now(plus losing an extra casualty if you break)for a +1 combat res. And Wood Elves should definitely take them. That way the enemy can't just look at the army ans tell where the "I can stand and shoot no matter how close you are" banner is.

Again, there's no point in not assembling them. If you don't want to use them,put them in the rear, but it's gonna be a pain if you find you want them in the future.
 

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In general I would take a musician as a default but as mentioned the champion and banner need to justify themselves before getting included. Personally I would say keep ranged units cheap and cheerful, that way you can get more models and more shots for less points. If you included champions and banners on every unit it starts to add quite a bit to the cost of smaller units and is often of marginal benefit.

With ranged units you really want to stay out of combat for the most part, normally because they aren't going to last long in combat, so taking extras to make them marginally better in combat is a dubious benefit at best normally.
 

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musicians are pretty much mandatory for all units. Whether or not they recieve the rest of the command group really comes down to unit size. If the unit of ranged guys numbers say 20+ it probably is best to take command seeing as the unit will be quite pricey and many enemies will try to charge the unit in an attempt to shut down your ranged stuff
 

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I'd also follow the advice of "Build em, even if you end up not using em" because at least that way you have the option if you want. Otherwise just make it clear to your opponent whether the unit does in fact have a command or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the replies. You guys provided some valuable info that I hadn't thought of, especially about the Wood Elves. Musicians for sure, and build 'em for the rest. it is. makes sense, and since they aren't really my armies, after all, if the other three gamers in this project want them later, well, they will be done.

Thanks for the quick informative replies, now to get painting!
 

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Although I think almost any unit should have a musician in 8th I would skip them on move or shoot weapons... you basically get nothing out of it since even a swift reform means you cannot shoot.
 

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I've always found missile troop unit champions annoying. They're able to insert themselves into challenges, which minimizes the effect characters have on the unit. Sometimes, that's enough to stall the combat for a turn, which can oftentimes be all you really need to maneuver a unit and launch a countercharge.
 

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with the Empire i'd use the champions just because they'd have longrifles other than that command models in the armies you've chosen are more for show than any abilities they give to their armies so it's down to wether you want the extra hassle of painting them.
Edited to add that I always add a champion to my leadbelchers for wound allocation.
 

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Comman is never worth it for missile troops , especially standard and musician as they aren't supposed to be in combat. Champions for missle troops depend on one thing : whether your empire or not , most of the time you pay around 6 points for a champ to give one model +1 BS which isn't worth it. Empire ofcourse can bring things like hochland longrifles , but i don't really care cause imo crossbows are better

However although i'm not too familiar with the new rules i believe having a standard allows you capture table quarters or something like that. This means depending on how many other units you have with standards the banner in the missle troop unit might be worth it.

Overall command isn't worth it unless you lack standards to score objectives.
 

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Comman is never worth it for missile troops , especially standard and musician as they aren't supposed to be in combat. Champions for missle troops depend on one thing : whether your empire or not , most of the time you pay around 6 points for a champ to give one model +1 BS which isn't worth it. Empire ofcourse can bring things like hochland longrifles , but i don't really care cause imo crossbows are better

However although i'm not too familiar with the new rules i believe having a standard allows you capture table quarters or something like that. This means depending on how many other units you have with standards the banner in the missle troop unit might be worth it.

Overall command isn't worth it unless you lack standards to score objectives.
Yeah, obviously.
I am loathe to delete any 'view' type comments but I am very close on this occasion. Please have some idea about the current rules (or at least read through the thread) before posting your opinion...

Champions- take them if your empire, otherwise probably not

Musicians- ALWAYS take them on any unit that can move and shoot (and isnt a skirmisher) since it lets you do a swift reform to shoot people who you otherwise couldnt target.

Standard- cannot help you claim table quarters (no such thing anymore), normally a waste of points but if you are worried about low numbers of standards in your army for possible blood and glory missions then you might want to shove a few onto missile troops just in case.
 

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Yeah, obviously.
I am loathe to delete any 'view' type comments but I am very close on this occasion. Please have some idea about the current rules (or at least read through the thread) before posting your opinion...

Champions- take them if your empire, otherwise probably not

Musicians- ALWAYS take them on any unit that can move and shoot (and isnt a skirmisher) since it lets you do a swift reform to shoot people who you otherwise couldnt target.

Standard- cannot help you claim table quarters (no such thing anymore), normally a waste of points but if you are worried about low numbers of standards in your army for possible blood and glory missions then you might want to shove a few onto missile troops just in case.
lol :biggrin:

i believe this is called making arse out of yourself
 

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I don't have a BRB handy at the moment, but I know that Brets do not give points for peasant standards getting captured so you get all reward with no extra risk for them.
 

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Its only +25pts for capturing a standard now, so its not nearly so bad as it was... and while bret peasants dont give that away they still have to pay the points for it and those will give the enemy extra VP if your unit with the banner dies.

Personally I very rarely lose ranged units in combat, but my view is a little skewed as I play ogres (dont have ranged units, not really) and WE, who dont tend to get caught anyway.
 

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I tend to put a Standard and Musician in my Brets Bowmen. Musician is obvious and the Standard is defensive for me. It gives me +1 to CR so it makes me a little more resilient in fights. You won't ever win but against those light, skirmishing units that tend to break through to your Bowmen that +1 CR is pretty handy. On top of that Blood and Glory is a mission on the game. Extra standards are great for that, As a Bret player you don't lose VP's for them but they do add to your fortitude.

Aramoro
 
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