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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Predictions Section
Space Marine Rumored Release
Predicted Release: Pre-Order 31 August 2013, Release 7 Sep 2013

Codex Information
Author: Robin Cruddace
State: Awaiting Release

General Information

  • 176 Pages
  • Cover features Sicarius
  • Less Ultramarine-centric (more chapters in the spotlight and then allowing for a proper expansion on the Ultramarines in a supplement)
  • 7 different Limited Editions, priced at $115 USD (regular edition is rumored to be $58 USD)
  • Black Templars moved back into the codex. Confirmed
  • Black Templars get special mention in the White Dwarf by Robin Cruddace on why they were moved, and are the Battle Report army vs CSM/Daemons Confirmed
  • Black Templars are featured as one of the Limited Edition books Confirmed
  • Space Marine Strikeforce $220 USD - 39 models
New Rules

  • New codex focus is on synergies between units
  • Graviton Weapons are being brought into standard 40k Confirmed
  • Black Templars are in the codex. They retain unique access to the Emperor's Champion and Crusader Squads, their allies chart options and can take any option in the codex apart from Librarians. Their Chapter Tactic replaces Vows.
Chapter Tactics: (These still work even if the Space Marines are allied to another army, and, unless otherwise stated, apply to all models in the detachment)
No Chapter Tactics provide Fearless or Stubborn to the army.

  • Ultramarines: (May no longer elect to fall back from combat) Choose one of the following Doctrines: Tactical, Assault, or Devastator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes who get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase
  • Imperial Fists: Bolter Drill, which allows them to re-roll any 1s with all Bolter weapons listed on page 56 of the codex (it does not work with Sternguard special rounds), additionally all Devastators and Centurion Devastators gain the Tank Hunters special rules and add a +1 to all rolls to damage buildings.
  • White Scars: +1 to jink save, auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run on all units, except for Terminators and Centurions (both types).
  • Raven Guard: Stealth USR and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
  • Iron Hands: Army wide 6+ Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters . Techmarines and Master of the Forge also get a +1 on their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls
  • Salamanders: Re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Additionally any character gets to master craft one weapon for free.
  • Black Templars: Crusaders (gives Adamantium Will and Crusader USRs) and Accept All Challenges, no Matter the Cost (Characters gain Rending and Re-roll To-hit Rolls in challenges).
  • Second Founding or Later Chapters: Use the rule of your Parent chapter.
  • Unknown Founding or Homebrew: Pick one.
Chapter Tactics can only be mixed by allying in a separate chapter (this implies a new rule allowing the codex to ally to itself).
Wargear:

  • Graviton Pistol: 12", S*, AP2, Concussive
  • Graviton Gun: 18", S*, AP2, Salvo 2/3, Concussive
  • Graviton Cannon: 24", S*, AP2, Salvo 3/5, Concussive
  • Grav-Amp: Re-Roll Wounds and Armor Penetration rolls with Grav-weapons
  • *Graviton weapons always wound on the same number as the target's armor save (example: against a Marine it's a 3+, against a Gaunt it's a 6+), against vehicles on a 1-5 it does nothing, on a 6+ it automatically Immobilizes the vehicle and removes 1 hull point. Rules are not yet clear how this applies to models without armor saves.
  • Graviton Pistols are available to almost any model that can take a pistol
  • Graviton Guns are a Special Weapon
  • Graviton Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions
  • Flak Missiles available for +10 points
  • Auxiliary Grenade Launcher: 24" Rapid Fire
  • Chapter Relics include 2 swords, 1 Bolter, 1 set of armor, 1 Storm Shield, 1 banner.
Warlord Traits: 1 chart shared between all chapters.

HQ
Special Characters are no longer required to run a specific chapter. Some Special Characters provide bonuses to units from their specific chapter though.

Characters from chapters can only be chosen by those specific chapters. For example: an army with the Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists) can not take Forge Father Vulcan He'stan as part of the main detachment. Characters can still be shared through the use of allying one chapter to another, however.
No Characters give Fearless or Stubborn to the army.

Chapter Master:
  • Has 4 Wounds and 4 Attacks,
  • Still has Orbital Bombardment
Captains:

  • Replace Black Templar Marshalls (and to an extent Castellans) for Black Templars
  • 10 point decrease base
  • 1 Bike squad of at least 5 models (of which one may be an attack bike) may be taken as a troops choice per Captain on a bike in your army.
  • No other real changes.
Chaplains: Has 2 Wounds, 2 Attacks and the Zealot USR.
Librarians:

  • No longer have codex powers, but retain same disciplines in rulebook.
  • Only unit not available to Black Templars
  • Mastery Level 1 cost 25 points less
  • Mastery Level 2 is a 25 point upgrade
  • Can only get Invunerable Saves through the Relics (one is stated to give a 6++) or Terminator Armor
Master of the Forge:

  • Still the "shooty" HQ option.
  • Only access to an Invulnerable save is through Chapter Relics.
Command Squad:
  • May still take bikes.
  • No option for Jump Packs
  • No option for Terminator Armor
Honor Guard:

  • Honor Guard cost 10 points less per model
  • Retain Power Weapons, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Artificer Armor, Frag and Krak Grenades
  • No change to Champion, just points decrease
  • No listed option for Invulnerable save
  • Can not take Jump Packs
Elite
Legion of the Damned:

  • All weapons ignore cover
  • 5 points less a model
Sternguard Veterans:

  • Special Ammunition is unchanged.
  • Sternguard went down 3 points a model.
Vanguard Veterans:

  • Heroic Intervention no longer allows the unit to charge from Deep Strike.
  • New Heroic Intervention: No penalty for disordered charges and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.
  • 1 point cheaper per model
  • Jump Packs cost 3 points per model
  • Now Elites
All Dreadnoughts:

  • "Basically the same"
Assault Terminators:

  • Thunderhammer/Stormshield Terminators now cost +5 points each to upgrade
  • Points cost unchanged.
Terminators:

  • Heavy Flamer went up in points, while Assault Cannon and Cyclone Missile Launcher got the same points decrease.
  • No new wargear options.
  • Points cost for Terminators unchanged.
Troop
Tactical Squads:

  • Tactical Marines cost 2 points less each.
  • Tactical Squads are similiar to the DA version, and the Marines now cost 2 points less each.
  • Tactical Squads may not take 2 Specialist Weapons
  • Sergeants work the same as the DA codex
Scouts:

  • 2 points less each
  • Can take Land Speeder Storm as a Dedicated Transport.
  • Telion remains the same points cost, but is updated to use the 6th Edition Sniper rules.
  • Telion is restricted to armies with the "Chapter Tactics: Ultramarine" special rule.
Crusader Squads:

  • Can take up to 2 Power Weapons/Fists in the Squad if a Sword Brother (Veteran Sergeant) is taken
  • Initiates cost the same as Tactical Marines and come with the same equipment (Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krack Grenades)
  • Initiates may trade their Bolters for CCW for free.
  • May take up to 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes in a squad
  • May take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport
  • No special rules beyond ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics (Black Templars)
  • ONLY available to armies with Chapter Tactics (Black Templars)
Dedicated Transport
Land Speeder Storm:

  • Now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts
  • Cerebus Launcher is now range 18", S 2, large blast, Blind
Other:

  • Black Templars may take Land Raider Crusaders as Dedicated Transports
  • Drop Pods hold 10 models
Fast Attack
Assault Marines:

  • 1 point cheaper per model
  • No access to melta
  • Can not be troops choices
Bikes:

  • 1 Bike squad of at least 5 models (of which one may be an attack bike) may be taken as a troops choice per Captain on a bike in your army.
  • Max size is 8 models
Scout Bikes:

  • 2 points cheaper per bike
  • Still lay mines as per current codex
Attack Bikes:

  • +5 points per model
Stormtalon Gunship:

  • Now an official part of the codex, Death from the Skies not required.
  • Same as the Death from the Skies version.
Land Speeder Squadrons:

  • May be taken in units of 1-3
  • No real chances
Land Speeder Typhoon:

  • 15 points cheaper
Heavy Support
Devastators:

  • Reduced points cost, close to the DA version
  • Signum still gives BS5 to one model in the squad
Thunderfire Cannon:

  • No change, same points cost.
Stormraven Gunship:

  • Official part of the codex, Death from the Skies no longer required to use.
  • Same points cost.
Vindicator:

  • "Basically the same"
Predator Tank:

  • Dakka Pred (Heavy Bolters/Autocannons) +5 points
  • Las Pred (Lascannon sponsons/turret) -25 Points
Whirlwind:

  • 20 point cost reduction, no other changes
Special Characters
Captain Cato Sicarius:

  • 15 point reduction in cost.
  • +1 to Reserve Rolls
  • No longer Seizes the Initiative on a 5+
Chaplain Cassius:

  • 5 point increase in cost.
  • Gained Zealot USR (?)
Chief Librarian Tigurius:

  • 65 point decrease
  • Mastery Level 3
  • Knows all disciplines
  • He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers
  • He can re-roll reserves(even successful ones)
  • Helm of Hellfire is a psychic hood
  • He can re-roll failed psychic test
  • Statline is unchange
Forge Father Vulcan He'stan:

  • No change in points
  • Gives Meltas in the Salamander army Twin-Link.
Kor'ssaro Khan:

  • 35 points cheaper
  • Moondrakkan 20 points cheaper
  • Bikes and Dedicated Transports in a White Scars detachment have the Scout USR
  • His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
Lysander:

  • Increased cost by +30 points
  • Still retains Eternal Warrior
  • No longer has Bolter Drill instead allows all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF) re-roll on morale and pinning test
  • Same statline
Marneus Calgar:

  • Rolls for 3 Warlord traits (re-rolls duplicates) and keeps all three
  • Terminator Armor now allows him to Sweeping Advance
  • 25 points more expensive than his current incarnation
  • may take his Terminator Armor for 10 points
  • It still has a Teleport Homer.
Pedro Kanto:

  • 10 point increase.
  • Makes Sternguard Scoring,
  • Uses Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists)
  • Retains 12" +1A Bubble
  • Has 4 Attacks, 4 Wounds
Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike: Can only infiltrate with jump infantry

Helbrecht:

  • Once per game gives Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics (Black Templars),
  • Can take an Honor Guard (he's a Chapter Master)
  • Does not get Orbital Bombardment.
  • W4, A4 like the generic Chapter Master
Grimaldus:

  • Has the Zealot and the "It Will Not Die" USRs.
  • Units within 6" of the servitors get a 6++ invulnerable save.
  • He has 3 Wounds and 3 Attacks.
Emperor's Champion:

  • Combat Tactics (Black Templar) exclusive
  • Sword is AP2 (at Initiative), Master Crafted
  • Has 2 "stances", one gives +2 Strength (counts-as 2 handed), the other gives Rending
  • Always has a 2+/4++
  • Does not take up a FOC slot.
  • May be the army's Warlord
Telion

  • Same Points cost
  • Has Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines) (effectively restricts which armies can take him)
Brother-Sergeant Chronus:

  • Remains the same with a points cost decrease.
New Units

Assault Centurions:

  • Models come with Siege Drills, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers.
  • Siege Drills are S9, AP2, Armourbane, Specialist Weapon and strike at Initiative.
  • Flamers can be traded for Meltas
  • Assault Launcher can be traded Hurricane Bolters.
  • They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF.
  • They can purchase an Omniscope which gives the Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
  • They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
  • They do not have an Invunerable save.
  • The Assault Centurion statline is as follows: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A1 / Ld8 / Sv2+
  • The Assualt Centurion Sergent statline is: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A2 / Ld9 / Sv2+
  • Centurions gain +1 Attack for having 2 Specialist Weapons in close combat.
Devastator Centurions:

  • Come equipped with twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters.
  • Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missiles
  • Heavy Bolters can be upgraded upgraded to Twin-Lascannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
  • They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF.
  • They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
  • They can be purchased in squads up to 6.
  • The Devastator Centurion statline is as follows: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A1 / Ld8 / Sv2+
  • The Devastator Centurion Sergent statline is: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A2 / Ld9 / Sv2+
  • Grav-Cannon is rumored to be AP2 (I am unsure at this time if this carries over to all Grav Weapons or not).
  • Grav-Amps allow you to reroll to wound rolls.
  • 3 models with no upgrade cost the same as the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Stalker:

  • Each gun is: 48" Range, S7, AP4, Heavy 4
  • Can Split fire at reduces BS
  • AV 12/12/10
  • Does not have Interceptor
  • 10 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Hunter:

  • 60", S7, AP2, Armourbane, Heavy 1
  • AV 12/12/10
  • Does not have Interceptor
  • 15 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Model Releases

  • New Captain Model Confirmed $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
  • New Librarian Model Confirmed $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
  • New Chaplain Model Confirmed $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
  • Reclusiam Command Squad 5 Man $90 USD - 5 Model Command Squad, Razorback, and Chaplain
  • New Sternguard Kit Confirmed $50 USD - 5 Model Plastic Box
  • New Vanguard Veterans Kit Confirmed $50 USD - 5 Model Plastic Box
  • Assault/Devastator Centurions Confirmed $78 USD - 3 Model box
  • New Tactical Squad Box (with Graviton Pistol and Graviton Gun options in addition to everything else). Confirmed $40 USD - 10 model Plastic Box
  • AA Tank: "the Hunter" Confirmed $65 USD - combined Kit with Stalker Tank
  • AA Tank: "the Stalker" Confirmed $65 USD - Combined Kit with Hunter Tank
  • Devastator Centurions Confirmed $78 USD - 3 Model box shared with Assault Centurions
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
So in a twist we may have been teased about the larger armor thing before. Some sketches from a GW event:




Assault Centurions:


Assault Centurions with Helmets:


Stalker Tank:



Vanguard Vets:



Captain


Not sure who this guy is. Perhaps the Sternguard Sergeant?


Helmetless Librarian


Sternguard


Chaplain, Captain, Librarian:


Heavy Support Centurions:


Better picture of the Stalker:


And the Hunter:


Possible Limited Edition Black Templar Cover?


Tactical Marines:



Reloading:


Sternguard with Combi-Melta:


More Sternguard:




Backshot of the Centurion's Legs revealing a Marine's legs:


Dev blurb explaining where the arms go in Centurion armor:


 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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*sigh* a super dread? Really? Surely there is something better they can come up with rather than a simple cut and paste big dread?

That said Rhino Command variants are pretty cool! I'm assuming that the Armoured Recovery Varaint is a techmarine DT.
 

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*sigh* a super dread? Really? Surely there is something better they can come up with rather than a simple cut and paste big dread?

That said Rhino Command variants are pretty cool! I'm assuming that the Armoured Recovery Varaint is a techmarine DT.
What things would you have rather seen? A mega-dread makes the most sense to me, even if it is a bit uninspired.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
*sigh* a super dread? Really? Surely there is something better they can come up with rather than a simple cut and paste big dread?

That said Rhino Command variants are pretty cool! I'm assuming that the Armoured Recovery Varaint is a techmarine DT.
Actually I rather doubt the "Super Dread" rumors as Jez Goodwin said in the recent "Into the Citadel" Q&As that he didn't think Marines need a big stompy robot thing. That said, he also said he'd handed the Marines over to the younger guys, so who knows.

That said, the rumors put it not as a Dreadknight but some kind of larger Contemptor, but I still doubt it quite a bit. Ever since the Riptide there have been claims that everyone is getting a big stompy robot, even when not everyone has (Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines didn't get big MC style robots afterall). Plus I could imagine that they're trying to keep the Marines from drifting into feeling to close to being the the same, so giving the Vanilla Marines a Dreadknight would only weaken the Grey Knights.

Besides, the Dreadknight might not even be Imperium tech (that's left murky in the codex) so I don't see it getting passed around to other armies.

Any mention of jump pack command squads or flakk missiles?
Nope. What's there is everything I could find. If I find more I'll add it though.
 

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I think marines are more likely to see land raider and/or rhino varients than a big walker, i do also expect a recut dreadnought and predator and razorbacks and a plastic tech marine because i cant get the resin one for love nor money!



 

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i do also expect a recut dreadnought and predator and razorbacks and a plastic tech marine because i cant get the resin one for love nor money!
bearing in mind assault on black reach was the only way to get a basic melta dread I would be astonished if we didn't see one,
I think I heard about a recut predator (but that may have been on here) and I doubt we'll see a plastic techmarine (mainly as it's the thing I want most):grin:
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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What things would you have rather seen? A mega-dread makes the most sense to me, even if it is a bit uninspired.
Personally I'd rather see the so called "missing link" tank between the Predator and the Land Raider, if I recall correctly the Pred is actually a "scout" tank while the LR is a heavy, although that may have been ret-conned now.

I also question the delivery method of said Mega Dread.

Infantry have Pods or Thunderhawks
Termies have DS or Thunderhawks
Dreads have Pods or Ravens (depending on the chapter)
Vehicles have Thunderhawk Transporters

What would this Mega dread have to keep it mobile?
 

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Personally I'd rather see the so called "missing link" tank between the Predator and the Land Raider, if I recall correctly the Pred is actually a "scout" tank while the LR is a heavy, although that may have been ret-conned now.

I also question the delivery method of said Mega Dread.

Infantry have Pods or Thunderhawks
Termies have DS or Thunderhawks
Dreads have Pods or Ravens (depending on the chapter)
Vehicles have Thunderhawk Transporters

What would this Mega dread have to keep it mobile?
Deep striking giant robots would be pretty cool!
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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And therein lies a problem that GW has, in my opinion, been suffering from for a while now. They are too busy trying to come up with "cool" stuff first and foremost rather than "cool" stuff that fits within the grim dark. I know I'm in the minority when I say that though.
 

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The rule re-writes to allow semi-custom leaders seems like a very solid idea. Can't wait to see more.

As for their inevitable super unit, I really don't care haha If it's something that looks ike it could fit with the force I'd want to make then great, otherwise I'd either proxy or play without it, kind of like the Helbrute, when I start CSM I'd buy a Forge World Dreadnought and proxy it as a Helbrute.
 

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And therein lies a problem that GW has, in my opinion, been suffering from for a while now. They are too busy trying to come up with "cool" stuff first and foremost rather than "cool" stuff that fits within the grim dark. I know I'm in the minority when I say that though.
Oh I agree with you, I've thought 40k has been getting more and more ridiculous for years. The lord of Skulls is a prime example. I refuse to see how anyone in any kind of "realistic" setting could think that think made sound tactical sense.
 

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I refuse to see how anyone in any kind of "realistic" setting could think that think made sound tactical sense.
I think you'd be doing well to fit anything in 40k into a feasible realistic scenario.
 

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That is very true. I don't know, I just feel like more and more of GW's products are feeling "toyish" for lack of a better term these days.
Yeh I agree.

The Khorne Lord of Skulls is a bit meh to me, but my son LOVES it. He's 12 and I've bought him one for his birthday.

Maybe it is us growing away from the hobby rather than any particular shift in GW's ethos?
 

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Yeh I agree.

The Khorne Lord of Skulls is a bit meh to me, but my son LOVES it. He's 12 and I've bought him one for his birthday.

Maybe it is us growing away from the hobby rather than any particular shift in GW's ethos?
It could well be, even the space marine stuff doesn't excite me as much as it used to!

However, if they were to release a plastic thunder hawk (I CAN DREAM!) I'd be all over that shit!
 

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It could well be, even the space marine stuff doesn't excite me as much as it used to!

However, if they were to release a plastic thunder hawk (I CAN DREAM!) I'd be all over that shit!
You and a slew of others (myself included) would take out a loan just to buy one. Plastic Thunderhawk and Warhound Titan :drool:

I personally do not see the Marines with a big stompy robot, since that's what the previously mentioned titan are for.

As for the in between of the Rhino chassis and Landraider chassis, would that be the Land-Avenger that was mentioned last year? I know that was an off the wall rumor thread, but, seems to fit as an answer for the question at hand.
 

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A great excuse for me to build a Space Marine Army, i have just renamed my Chaos Army from Son's of Achaylus to Bonecrushers of Achaylus, now i can build the Son's of Achaylus Army prior to their Chaos conversion, i am thinking happy, happy, joy, joy thoughts.
 
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