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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Past couple of days I've seen a lot of folks posting lists that seem to be all for using vindicators. So I'm posting my take on Vindicator lists at 1.5 and 2K. They are, IMO, pretty balanced (though I think the concept works better at 2K)

For both of them, I've taken the same concept (see the tactica in my sig) -- but to boil it all down... Codex Marines suck at CC when compared against thier buddys the Space Wolves or the Emo Vampires. So why try to write a bunch of CC into their lists.... So instead, I've taken the concept of torrenting the piss out of the enemy instead. They "can" do CC, but they can't do it as well as the other Non Codex chapters.

2K List
  • Libby
  • 3 Vindicators
  • 3 Typhoon Speeders
  • 3 Rifleman Dreads
  • 2 Full tac squads (ML and Flamer + PW sgt) In TL Las Razorback
  • 2 5 man Tac squads in TL Las Razorback

Total of 10 real long range threats, with the added fun of three vindicators in the list as well. Also, 6 scoring units

For 1500 Points
  • Libby
  • 2 Vindicators
  • 3 Typhoons
  • 3 Rifleman Dreads
  • Full Tac squad w/ TL Las razorback
  • Full Tac Squad in Rhino

7 ranged threats, 4 scoring units and 2 annoying vindicators...

In both lists, extra points went to giving Sgt's powerweapons and stuff. Also, for many the Las/Plas razorback is much more appealing for dealing with Termies and such... I tend to hand them back and not rush them forward, so it dosen't appeal to me that much (and frankly, I can't be bothered to do the conversion)

BTW - You can also run that basic configuration with AutoLas predators or even whirlwinds (for a fluffy list) and have it work - at least at 2K.

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For Space Wolves
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You can do it cheaper and better... You gain some PW and another Razorback. But you get the best Psychic defense (hooray for 4+) And on the downside, you lose 2 ML shots and one scoring unit...

2K list
  • Rune Priest
  • 3 Rifleman Dreads
  • 3 Typhoons
  • 3 Vindicators
  • 5x Grey Hunters (PW + Flamer) in Razorbacks (TL Las- or "a good gun")
And still have 55 points left over at 2K....

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Thoughts? Comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
So I played the codex version of this list last night.

The initial challenge was for my buddy Wes to bring his Razorback spam (pretty much standard, lots of Las Plas) list vs my Wolf Razorback spam list: HERE We threw in the towel at the end of turn 2 cause I had pretty much stuned him to helplessness and he had maybe 3 functioning tanks and I had lost a dread... so he was completely outgunned

So we decided to do a rematch with my Vindi list above (Codex) vs his same list.

Couple of observations...

1. Only 1 or 2 of the vindis were able to fire at any given point.
2. They had to be respected - and had to be on the top of his target priority.
3. The inclusion of the vindi's gave a free pass to the rest of my shooters ... he took shots at them, but had to put enough into the vindicators to keep them occupied.... which let me go free.
4. Suppression is where it's at. In both games (though I had a better list in the first game) I was able to reduce the total number of vehicles able to shoot every turn down to three or four out of the 12-13 he had. That allowed me to put shots from 8-9 vehicles into him and do the same thing all over again next time. Every turn I blow a few up... but every turn he had less of an opportunity to hurt me.
5. Big templates are always fun...
6. You can't just sit there... You've got to move for the side shots... and play a little aggro if you're matched well

In both games I was able to hide a portion of my force behind LOS blocking cover... allowing me to overload a small portion of his army with things he couldn't hit back without giving me at least a 4+ We called the game after turn 3 cause I had him beat...

So I've now had three or four games with the Tri-Vindi list and I'm pretty happy with it...

I don't really see any need for changes... everything worked pretty well and while I don't really see it as being "the nasty" I think it can hang vs most lists... Any thoughts?
 

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I have had very similar experiences playing against a triple vindy list. For 300-400 points you put something out there that:
a) Has to be dealt with
b) Puts a scary hurt on expensive units (read: vehicles, terminators, thunderwolf riders, etc)
c) Creates a great wall for the rest of your army
d) Is very survivable because of the 13 AV and the fact that there are 3 of them

The list I play against often is 3 vindys, 3 MM land speeders, and the rest all cheap tactical squads in vehicles. He owns 24 inches. Once you get in his fire zone he decimates your army. Whatever is left over is just never enough to overcome his multitude of troop choices.

A couple of words of advise, Vindys are like heroin. Once you get them in your system other drugs are a lot less useful. You'll find that the more you play with them the more you'll use them as a crutch strategic centerpiece. There are armies that can beat it handily. Demons come to mind, so do Nidzilla lists, dark eldar probably will but I'm not sure yet. Try and maintain as much flexibility with the rest of your units as possible.

Other than that have fun. You may find this makes you bench your army against friends. If their army's just don't have what it takes to beat the vindys, they just won't play it.

Rix
 

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CLT40k, I was wondering what your loadout is on the Speeders. Do you keep the heavy bolter for the cohesion of range, or do you mix it up with Multi-Melta's to add versatility?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I put melta on there so I can suicide run/block with them if I need to... But last night, in two games, I never had to put them in melta range (which is about the norm for my games) - My thinking in the set up is that 6 ML shots from the 3 of em every turn is worth the 120 points to add them to my speeders... it doesn't eat an additional FoC slot and it gives them to duality over the MM/HF variety... And you've gotta spend your points on something ...

Rixnor - In truth, while I like vindi's, I don't think you can really count them towards your overall firepower output --- for example, I think you need at least 9 things shooting hard every turn to run a competative list for Marines (at least for Codex and Space Wolves) In looking at the role the vindi plays... you just can't rely on them for too carry the list. I think they work in the list above because they're so well suported... Having the other 10 threats (12 if I count the 2 tac MLs) put my opponent into the position of asking himself if he needs to pop the vindi or lighter AV vehicles... and since everything had the potential to screw up his day... it was a hard choice he had to make.

Vindis are awesome, but they're still just another tool in the bag. And with the AV 11 side armor, they are just another rhino for side shots. Also, the cannon both can and will scatter, so it's does not have the same "I'm gonna hit you at least once" reliability as say a predator.... though when it does it's always heroic - I got the joy of nuking his libby and friends last night when I blew them out of thier vehicle... And that's always good for a smile...

Where I think folks have problems with putting vindis into thier lists is that they rely on them to do too much. For example, if you only have say 3 other shooting threats and the 3 Vindi's in your list... you're playing a much different game and it's real easy to get them singled out and blasted apart. But when well supported, I think they're great...

So I guess I'm saying that I think they are great IF you build that synergy in your list that will support them...
 

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way to win, i expected to hear great things about this list, and i was right, well done sir.

i do admit that in your first post i had the feeling the 3 Vindie list would be far more effective, and IMO i'd try to put in that third Vindie at 1500 pts.

well done.
 

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I put melta on there so I can suicide run/block with them if I need to... But last night, in two games, I never had to put them in melta range (which is about the norm for my games) - My thinking in the set up is that 6 ML shots from the 3 of em every turn is worth the 120 points to add them to my speeders... it doesn't eat an additional FoC slot and it gives them to duality over the MM/HF variety... And you've gotta spend your points on something ...
Thanks for answering that CLT40k. I can't quite decide on how I want to run my Speeders since they all have their uses, but I do like having that MM on occasion.+Rep for you sir.

:victory:
 

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I recently picked up a new codex, and one of my old favs. Try running that vindi list with blood angels and see what happens. Not only do you get a 12in move, but a libby in a rhino tucked behind them can give them a 5+ cover right out in the open.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I really think Preds are better than Vindicators, but Your list is pretty solid, so no big deal really.
I agree for the most part... this is more of a "themed" list and the idea was to put in 3 vindis... I'm gonna try the same thing with Whirlwinds at some point... though I doubt it will have the same punch...
 
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