But by doing so fairly, which means you stick with the same army from game to game.
Chapter Tactics when using two Space Marine special characters?
If you were using two Space Marine special characters in a tourney list, say Pedro and Lysander, would there be any injunction in the rules against using different chapter tactics in different battles, or would it depend on the tournament?
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From what i can tell, Chapter Tactics seems the same as choosing whether to Deep Strike a unit from game to game. You paid the cost of the abilities when you purchased two expensive HQ units, so you should be able to choose which Chapter Tactics to use.
Deathscythe I see it the same way and wouldn't penalize a player for trying it. I mean I see what everyone's saying like with Deep Striking, you can choose to Deep Strike or you can choose to deploy normally.
But I would definitely clear it with any tournie guy first before just springing it on someone.
But I would definitely clear it with any tournie guy first before just springing it on someone.
That would be true if I hadn't specified OLD rules back when they got it for free. Reading comprehension - fail................:laugh:The Black Templar comparison is flawed anyway as you must pay different costs for each vow, you might as well be swapping out wargear as changing vows.
And this is the only real answer. Ask the TO. If you're coming to one I'm running, don't bother with taking two expensive characters..But I would definitely clear it with any tournie guy first before just springing it on someone.
I'm sorry, DeathKlokk, but I fail to see how an army list that includes two characters with Chapter Tactics changes from game to game.But by doing so fairly, which means you stick with the same army from game to game.
I mean, sure, the army's tactics might differ from game to game, but how is it different than changing your overall strategy from game to game based on what your opponent plays?
Your list doesn't play the same regardless of who you fight... you would have a different strategy for facing a tau gunline than you would ork mobs, right? You design the list to "take on all comers"- A list with multiple chapter tactics options can choose what rule takes precedence, just as you would decide what units infiltrate, deep strike, or outflank... depending on who the comer is. I think it holds true to both the spirit and the letter of the concept.
The player makes one legal list, submits one list, plays one list, and doesnt alter his list in any way throughout the tournament. His strategy for beating opponents changes from game to game. I don't see how its not valid.
It's the same as changing psychic powers from game to game, tailoring them to your opponent.
You choose psychic powers from a list so there's an element of choice involved in that which does not happen here.
I don't see anything unfair in doing this or anything even unreasonable.
Aramoro
I don't see anything unfair in doing this or anything even unreasonable.
Aramoro
Psychic powers are bought.It's the same as changing psychic powers from game to game, tailoring them to your opponent.
If I buy two psychic powers I get to use two psychic powers, or use only one of them in one game and then use only the other in another game.
As no rule has been published saying which takes precedence then it is entirely subject to whatever rule resolution method the players have agreed (e.g. the Tournament rules).
You're making a choice between having your entire army Fleet, Outflank, or Stubborn. Which are of different uses for different enemies, thus tailoring your list between games.
@Dave- I was specifically talking about Librarian powers, which you just pick from a list and do not pay points for.
As for deciding about Outflank and Deepstrike and such, none of these abilities are lost by making the decision to use them or not, Chapter Tactics are a "this or that" decision, which is changing your army list IMHO.
Bottom line? Ask the TO beforehand.
@Dave- I was specifically talking about Librarian powers, which you just pick from a list and do not pay points for.
As for deciding about Outflank and Deepstrike and such, none of these abilities are lost by making the decision to use them or not, Chapter Tactics are a "this or that" decision, which is changing your army list IMHO.
Bottom line? Ask the TO beforehand.
I had forgotten that the new Codex had pick from a list instead of buy.@Dave- I was specifically talking about Librarian powers, which you just pick from a list and do not pay points for.
Checking that Codex further it says that you choose Librarian powers when the army is picked (p57); however, none of the variant Chapter tactics include a limitation on when you choose so the most logical construction is that you choose which Combat Tactic applies to the army at any point after choosing the second character.
Choosing to use - or not- any strategy is tailoring your army, so your argument does not distinguish between choosing to Deep Strike Terminators in one battle and not in another, and choosing to use page 35 of the Codex Astartes (Outflanking an emplaced threat) as opposed to page 767 (Remembering the Ultramarines are better than everyone so do not need to fear).You're making a choice between having your entire army Fleet, Outflank, or Stubborn. Which are of different uses for different enemies, thus tailoring your list between games.
isn't this sort of pointless as he said Pedro and Lysander...the 2 which have the same ability to make everyone stubbon.
For any other i would say the following.
For Freindly games - Ya fine chose the one you want
For Doubles(Torny or friendly) - Only YOUR army gets it
For Tornys - Clear it with the orginiser but otherwise chose before the game
For any other i would say the following.
For Freindly games - Ya fine chose the one you want
For Doubles(Torny or friendly) - Only YOUR army gets it
For Tornys - Clear it with the orginiser but otherwise chose before the game
It's pointless in relation to Pedro and Lysander as you would Always choose Pedro's rulesisn't this sort of pointless as he said Pedro and Lysander...the 2 which have the same ability to make everyone stubbon.
For any other i would say the following.
For Freindly games - Ya fine chose the one you want
For Doubles(Torny or friendly) - Only YOUR army gets it
For Tornys - Clear it with the orginiser but otherwise chose before the game
But it matters is you have say Pedro and Khan or Calgar and Shrike for example.
Choose before each game seem the most reasonable answer
Aramoro
In my head, its actually a sub-optimal choice anyway. Whenever I have seen someone choose such a special character, the army is usually built to take advantage of the Chapter Tactics...
Having two different options either splits the focus of the army, which waters down the effect of either Tactic- or it renders one choice clearly better in almost all circumstances.
You would be much better off building a balanced list that took advantage of one tactic, than trying to mix and match two.
If I saw someone do it, I'd say more power to ya. It's legal, it's a non-changing army list, and the person playing it probably put in a lot of time trying to get his army to synergize.
Having two different options either splits the focus of the army, which waters down the effect of either Tactic- or it renders one choice clearly better in almost all circumstances.
You would be much better off building a balanced list that took advantage of one tactic, than trying to mix and match two.
If I saw someone do it, I'd say more power to ya. It's legal, it's a non-changing army list, and the person playing it probably put in a lot of time trying to get his army to synergize.
that was sort of what i was trying to say (once agian Aramoro you say why i try to is half as many words)
Since they arn't an ability you have to pay for and they arn't part of the requirments for taking i would say that you cna chose at the start of the game. However be carful at Tornys and make sure to ask the ref before hand to find out if that fine or not(You may also lose 1 or 2 sportmanship points for making the msot of a flaw in the book but leagal one)
Since they arn't an ability you have to pay for and they arn't part of the requirments for taking i would say that you cna chose at the start of the game. However be carful at Tornys and make sure to ask the ref before hand to find out if that fine or not(You may also lose 1 or 2 sportmanship points for making the msot of a flaw in the book but leagal one)
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