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Okay, purely for fluff here, but anyone else think that Dreads could be Force Leaders? The BA have libby dreads so why not the chapter master?

Consider. They're old, know the ways of war better than most and if you're not going to obey the words of an Ancient then you certainly will obey something twice your height with some meaty weapons on it. Especially since FW released a Chaplain Dread (though only counts as an Elite's choice).

As well as that, Bjorn the Fellhanded actually ran the defense of the Fang a coupla times and Space Wolves could us a Dread as HQ in their previous codex (though I've never found anyone who actually did).

The thing is though, would a Codex Chapter ever do such a thing?

Discuss.
 

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I thought libby dreads were HQ? no? oh well. Anyway the problem with them is that I believe they are put to sleep after every battle so they don't go ape-shit like those Chaos Dreads that everyone love...only on a few occasions do I remember a dread being awake constantly without going crazy. One was a chaos dread, one was in the ultrasmurf book (I think the techmarine was it) and lastly Bjorn and it would be immoral for them to put him to sleep I think...he did know the fucking primarch
 

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Yeah, most dreads go a bit loopy if they're awake for too long, which is why having a Dread Chapter Master would be a bad idea. You don't want to give command power to someone who more than likely will lose his hold on reality at some point.
 

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I had a Space Wolves army and I used Bjorn to great affect. Fluff wise, I doubt a dread would be a Chapter Master permanently. Maybe as a stand-in if the CM gets killed.
 

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Well you must remember that Bjorn isn't the CM he is just a guy who's been around for a very long time. He really is not someone you want to fuck with
 

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I think a Chapter Master dread would be really cool. I don't see a real issue with him being awake for long; this will be an issue only after many centuries. So, you could have the CM being almost killed and interred in a dread. However, his replacement is either killed or not up to the job; either way he is only in charge long enough for the dread-CM to get used to his new life and take back charge. He then leads the Chapter to victory and can take a while to choose a fitting replacement/retrain the other Marine who failed.
I can see this happening to almost any Chapter, Codex or no, should the circumstances be right. Maybe a descendent of the IFs would be pre-disposed to listening to a dread CM? Is this going to a Chapter of your own devising? If not, maybe the Brazen Claws could have had a dread CM at some point?

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Fluff-wise, as said, the only real problem with it would be that Dreads do need to have long periods of sleep to stop going nuts, and that they react slower to situations then a normal marine would...

That said, its not completely inconceivable that a chapters master could be dreaded, and left in command because of centuries of tactical experience etc... I'd just say fluff-wise they'd be something of a Bjorn character, in charge, but because of not being able to opperate continuously... having some sort of second in command regent to do their work when they can't be around.
 

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There was only a small point which Bjorn was the CM but that was when he was still a human being (well...super human being I guess)
 

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As Astartes themselves can survive, and thrive, on only 2-3 hours of sleep and even less when on combat ops, I can't see the dread-Master being too badly affected by being awake, at least not at first. As long as he gets his down-time, maybe 3-5 hours when not at war, less when in action, then he should be ok; at least for a while anyway.
In the end, maybe the Chapter would end up going the White Consuls route and have two Chapter Masters; maybe the dread-Master would end up by spending more time as a strategic leader, spending his time, mainly away fom combat during the times he needs to sleep, whereas there is a second CM who will take charge during combat ops in a more tactical capacity.
When I spoke about the Brazen Claws I said they were an IF descendent, but what I meant was an IH successor. So, with great technical expertise and close ties to the AdMech, any dread meant for a CM would be incredible, probably alleviating some of the problems that 'normal'dreads face. So, rather than the pilot becoming more distant from everything else because of seeing things through auto-senses and a MIU, the dread shell he's in could be upgraded to allow him a more 'immediate'experience of life, keeping him feeling more physically alive, which would hopefully negate the need for him to sleep for extended periods- or at least put this phase off for much longer.

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interesting idea.....Bjorn would probably be the most likely as he was a CM before internment. In the fluff it evens says that he loves to spin a great yarn when not sleeping.

Is there any hard data regarding how much sleep a dread actually requires to not go crazy? That could also play into how feasable a Dread CM could be. If its something like 10,000 years sleep to stay awake 1000 years probably not very likely.
 

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After Russ went away, did not Bjorn take command of the chapter? Yes, I think, but then when he had that accident and had to be put into a Dread, did he not continue to lead the chapter for like a half millenium, before getting tired and getting the need to go on a vacation? I would remember reading that in a Index Astartes article about Dreads...
 

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"After Russ's disappearance, he assumed the Primarch's leadership of the Space Wolves, becoming the Chapter's first Great Wolf. His heroic career at the head of the Space Wolves ended during a raid against a fortress in M31, when he was so severely wounded and crippled that he was beyond the aid of the chapter's Apothecaries, and his paralyzed body was transplanted within a Dreadnought. Over the following five hundred years he remained at the forefront of battle. Eventually however, the long years took their toll on the warrior, and he began spending longer and longer periods dormant in stasis sleep. Now he is only awakened once every thousand years, or when the chapter has the greatest need of his potent skills and wisdom. He is also awakened at the dawn of each new century to hold court at the Great Feast, where he recounts elements from his own saga to his battle-brothers" -Lexicanum

so yes he was chapter master and yes he was so after being a dread but he also was needing more and more sleep so I think this proves that Dreads can't be CMs
 

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yes the iron hands have a dread leader, but know a CM Dread...
 

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It said we has active for 500 yeas after being interned though.... If we think that the oldest Space Marine CM is Dante at over 1100 years... Then I think the average is about 900 years for some of the others... A CM Dread would be feasable in the short-term, especially if it was a freshly interned one...

500 years leadership is better then none, and as said, Could wake it up as a grand decision maker over a council.
 

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I don't have it in front of me right now, but IIRC in the fluff from C:BA it mentions that Dante consults with the BA Furioso's for advice. It's not a giant leap to believe that should Dante fall and they need a short term replacement, that a Furioso could not step in. And honestly, what is "short term" to space marines that live for centuries, and that travel through the vagaries of the warp not knowing if they'll arrive at the correct time or hundreds of years later?
 

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Cassius is only 400 years old I believe, and he's the eldest of the Ultramarines
Thats cause the Smurfs are emo and those kinds of things, and they also like to try our the suicide thingie, so they usually die at a young age... :p
 

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Anyway the problem with them is that I believe they are put to sleep after every battle so they don't go ape-shit like those Chaos Dreads that everyone love...only on a few occasions do I remember a dread being awake constantly without going crazy. One was a chaos dread, one was in the ultrasmurf book (I think the techmarine was it).
Dreads dont go mad if they dont get enough sleep some less advanced and earlier models will however function slower and slower with ever decreasing reaction times.
The Chaos Dreads go mad because they do not want to be inside their dreadnought body while the normals dont really care.

Many Dreadnoughts stay awake for extended periods of time including the Chapter Master of the Blood Swords Lord Daggan who was a venerable dread for several hundred years before he was eaten by a Blood Fiend.

In fact the only dreads to go crazy are Death Company Dreads and Chaos Dreads.
 
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