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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
For starter, some small ideas about "Undivided" Legions

Black Legion: already has a codex :p

Word Bearers: the Crimson Slaughter Codex is secretly gay and also a Word Bearer Codex. (Seriously, they got possessed as troop, they got the Evil Crozius under another name, they mess with daemons all day long but worship none in particular, etc...also share almost the same frigging colour!! Really GW? Really?)

Iron Warriors: No unit from this detachment can have marks unless Cult Troops.
Instead, Chaos Marines units, Chosen units, Havocs units, bikers, raptors and Obliterators, can have Tank Hunters for +10 pts per unit.
Also, all models in the Iron Warriors Detachment have Move trough cover (Ruins).

Night Lords: No unit from this detachment can have marks unless Cult Troops.
Instead, Chaos Marines units, Chosen units, Havocs units, Bikers, Terminators and Raptors can have Fear and "Psycological Warfare"* for +10 Pts per unit.
Also, Warp Talons and Raptors from this detachment are troops.

*Psycological Warfare: when an enemy unit is charged by a model with this rule, they cannot Overwatch unless they make a Leadership Test. Fearless units are immune. ATSKNF can reroll a failed test. Fear test taken against a model with this rule are at -2 Ld.

Alpha Legion: No unit from this detachment can have marks unless Cult Troops.
Instead Chaos Marines units, Chosen Units and Cultists units can have Infiltration for + 20 pts per unit.
Units from this detachment have Shrouded during the turn they come from reserves, ongoing reserve or Outflank.


Regarding extra formations and such, i'm not meddling with the stuff, since my group is mainly CAD abiding.
Perhaps i would add some home made formations for fun, but otherwise i'm focusind over a CAD approach.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Emperor Children stub:

Emperor's Children: Units from this detachment MUST have Mark of Slaanesh if Possible.
Every unit that, at the beginning of the battle, is comprised by 6 models gets "Favour of Slaanesh"*
Any non super-heavy vehicle can purchase "Favour of Slaanesh"* for +10 pts
Any walker can take a Dedication to Slaanesh ** for +15 pts.
Icon of Excess purchased for units in this detachment grants Feel No Pain (4+)

*Favour of Slaanesh: The unit can reroll To Hit rolls of "1"
** Dedication to Slaanesh: Hate (Khorne), Fleet, +3" Run distance)
 

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I partially disagree about the Word Bearers : Crimson Slaughter are close to them, but every former Legion should use the Black Legion supplement, with some specific rules and changes for Chosen. For the Word Bearers, I would imagine, for instance :

- Chosen May be turned into Possessed (15pts/model, giving it Daemon, Fleet, Instruments of Chaos and Fearless rules). A kind of super-possessed "Gal Vorbak" unit with bolters and grenades,

- Another option being to allow jump-packs for Chosen all equipped with flamers (Ashen Circle),

- Options when the Warlord is a Dark Apostle (use of the Daemons Warp Storm table, Book of Lorgar making him Psyker 1 with the Cursed Earth power for 30pts, allowing to pick up 1/3 of units from the Daemon Codex, ... these are Just on-the-fly ideas),

- Use Crimson Slaughter Relics instead of CSM Artefacts.

The Crimson Slaughter supplement fits the Night Lords suite well too with the Fear for everyone, but is intented to later Chaos Warbands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well, you are taking it a lot more into complexity than my intent was :)
And i thought i was exaggerating with options!
About CS, yes they are not the same, but in a pinch, i've seen a couple of armies really close to what a Bearer army would be
Possessed as troops, sorcerors that can summon daemons better than anyone else, chaos apostates with a crozius of evil leading mobs of cultists...mmh....rings a bell to me.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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I'm sure you'll come up with better rules, but just throwing some ideas out there for the World Eaters:

- All models capable of purchasing a Mark of Khorne must do so (obviously); Noise Marines, Plague Marines, Thousand Sons, and Sorcerers may not be taken in this detachment.

- Khorne Berzerkers may be taken as Troops

- For units of Chaos Space Marines, any model may purchase a Close Combat Weapon for free.

- All characters have the Rampage special rule

- All Independent Characters have the Hatred special rule, and confer it to any World Eaters unit they are joined to

- Butcher's Nails: Wargear upgrade for unit champions or the unit or something, makes them Fearless
 

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Rattlehead
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Initial thoughts for Legion rules (yet again...).

Bonuses only apply to non-vehicle models unless specifically stated.

Alpha Legion: May modify all reserve rolls, friendly and enemy, by 1. Re-roll Seize the Initiative, enemies must re-roll successful Seize rolls. Cultists and Chosen have Infiltrate, everything else has Outflank.

Black Legion: Black legion supplement.

Death Guard: Everything that can have Mark of Nurgle must have Mark of Nurgle, and cannot take units with Marks other than Mark of Nurgle. Can Rapid Fire bolt weapons and charge in the same turn (but can't fire other weapons and still charge - if you have 9 bolter dudes and a plasma guy, the Plasma can't fire). 5pts to give Template weapons Shred.

Emperor's Children: Everything that can have Mark of Slaanesh must have Mark of Slaanesh, and cannot take units with Marks other than Mark of Slaanesh. Units can re-roll a single D6 on their charge distance and have the Crusader special rule. Lords can take a Dirge Caster, and vehicle mounted Dirge Casters double in range.

Iron Warriors: Don't take Morale from shooting casualties, Havocs gain Tank Hunters, regular CSM units can take Heavy Weapons instead of Special Weapons wherever that would be an option (so 2 heavies per 10 men).

Night Lords: +1 to roll for Night Fight, army causes Fear, Raptors become Troops, and units gain Shred if they outnumber their enemies in close combat. May choose to automatically fall back whenever they're forced to take a morale or pinning check.

Thousand Sons: Everything that can have Mark of Tzeentch must have Mark of Tzeentch, and cannot take units with Marks other than Mark of Tzeentch. Lords can take Mastery Levels for 25pts per, up to Mastery 2. Sorcerors can buy 3 additional Mastery Levels rather than 2, and have access to Divination. If a unit contains any Psyker, the AP value of their Bolt weapons is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 (does not apply to Inferno Bolts).

World Eaters: Everything that can have Mark of Khorne must have Mark of Khorne, and cannot take units with Marks other than Mark of Khorne. All units gain Hatred, and all close combat weapons are upgraded to Chainaxes at no additional cost (Chainaxes go to Str User +1, AP-, -1 Initiative on the wielder).

Word Bearers: Re-roll failed psychic tests when casting from Malefic Daemonology. Can upgrade Dark Apostles to have Chaos Lord statlines (+1 WS/W) for 25pts. Regular CSM gain +1 Leadership.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Guys, here we ahave a lot of fun stuff! I've noticed a trend in all this: while i am more used to let CSM buy for their extras, others go for Chaos Chapter Tactics, with flat bonuses and some extra upgrades.
I think the second way is better.
I'll even say that we should do just like the loyalist and allow no particular extra equipment or option, just giving some flat bonuses a la Chapter Tactics should be ok.
What do you think?
 

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well, you are taking it a lot more into complexity than my intent was :)
And i thought i was exaggerating with options!
About CS, yes they are not the same, but in a pinch, i've seen a couple of armies really close to what a Bearer army would be
Possessed as troops, sorcerors that can summon daemons better than anyone else, chaos apostates with a crozius of evil leading mobs of cultists...mmh....rings a bell to me.
Sure ... that's the way I'm currently playing Word Bearers. But, fluffy speaking, the VotLW restriction makes Crimson Slaughter a non-Word Bearers supplement (same goes for the Night Lords and the "Fear for all" rule for Crimson Slaughter CAD). Globally, the Crimson Slaughter is currently the best way to design Word Bearers lists ;)

For the rest, I'm not particularly looking at designing and using new rules for my games. I'm just throwing on-the-fly ideas about the Legions, hoping that formations or rules will soon be provided for them (and for Warbands of the same type, as for the SM Chapters accroding to the Loyalist Legion they come from).

Maybe I'll try up some custom formations as time and games go on, though.
 

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Guys, here we ahave a lot of fun stuff! I've noticed a trend in all this: while i am more used to let CSM buy for their extras, others go for Chaos Chapter Tactics, with flat bonuses and some extra upgrades.
I think the second way is better.
I'll even say that we should do just like the loyalist and allow no particular extra equipment or option, just giving some flat bonuses a la Chapter Tactics should be ok.
What do you think?
After some more thinking, and according to what has been said here, I would propose a basic scheme for those "Heretic Legions Tactics" (that could also be chosen by Chaos Warbands inspired from them). It could be the advantages of specific formations, replacing one or more advantages of a CAD or having its own additional cost :

These tactics would have 4 elements :
- The supplements that may or may not be used,
- A specific rule for some Elites (particularly Chosen, but it can be for Terminators or Possessed, according to the Legion concerned) ... not something too powerful, but making them closer to the fluff,
- A generic rule,
- Some restrictions or mandatory choices.

For instance :

"Emperor's Children :

- May be set up from CSM Codex, as far as BL or CS supplements.
- One Chosen unit may be upgraded to a "Phoenix Guard" unit, giving its models "Feel no Pain (4+)" for 6pts/model.
- The Warlord, as far as Noise Marines champions, may have Dirge Casters.
- All the units must have the "Mark of Slaanesh" (whenever possible). No Cult Marines, except Noise Marines, are allowed."

"Night Lords :

- May be set up from CSM Codex, as far as BL or CS supplements.
- Chosen may have jumpacks (6pts/model).
- All the units in Terminator or Power Armour, as far as Hellbrutes, cause "Fear", are not affected by the night and are Shrouded during the night.
- No unit, except Cult ones, may be Marked by any God."

"Black Legion :

- Must be set up from the BL supplement.
- One Terminators unit may have WS+1, BS+1 (6pts/model, with or without Abaddon as Warlord).
- May select the generic rule of any other Heretic Legion.
- All the units must take the VotLW option (whenever possible, BL supplement restriction)."

"Word Bearers :

- Must be set up from the Crimson Slaughter supplement.
- One Possessed unit may be upgraded to a Gal Vorbak Elite for 6pts/model. This unit may reroll its "Intruments of Chaos" dice every turn.
- Overriding the Crimson Slaughter supplement rule, the VotLW is available for all the units in Terminator or Power armour, as far as Hellbrutes.
- The army list must include a Dark Apostle."

"Alpha Legion :

- May be set up from CSM Codex, as far as BL or CS supplements.
- All Chosen units have the "Infiltrators" rule (6pts/model).
- Allied detachments are always considered as "Allies of Convenience".
- Battle Brothers allied detachments are also considered as Allies of Convenience."

"Iron Warriors :

- May be set up from CSM Codex, as far as BL or CS supplements.
- Chosen may replace bolters with all the weapons available to Havocs. One unit of Chosen may have the "Tank Hunters" ability (6pts/model).
- All models in Terminator or Power armour, as far as Hellbrutes, have Move trough cover (Ruins).
- The detachment must include a Warpsmith."

"Thousand Sons :

- May be set up from CSM Codex, as far as BL or CS supplements.
- One Chosen unit may be upgraded to "Thousand Sons Cult Covenant" (+6pts/model), a level 1 "Brotherhood of Psykers" (+25pts for level 2, +50pts for level 3). They have access to Force Weapons and Aura of Dark Glory. Any Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch whose unit is in 12'' of the Covenant may use their powers.
- Sorcerers have access to Divination and Telekinesis disciplines (additionally to the normal ones). Any Thousand Sons Marines unit within 12'' or led by a Sorcerer are "Relentless" instead of "Slow and Purposeful".
- All the units must have the "Mark of Tzeentch" (whenever possible). No Cult Marines, except Thousand Sons, are allowed."

I lack of inspiration for The World Eaters and the Death Guard, but the principles and guidelines could help us find something.

What do you think about it ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
After long thinkering i'd rather not overcomplicate this stuff. A simple and elegant rule added to the whole army, just like SM does, is the way to go. No extra points should be paramount, given that we already are below the average power level.

-SO:

Night Lords-
all models have fear and any enemy within 6" has -1 Ld.
Twice per game you can select an enemy unit, within 18" of your models, that have to make a Morale, Leadership or pinning test: the test is automatically failed.

Iron Warriors:
Don't take Morale from shooting casualties, regular CSM units can take Heavy Weapons instead of Special Weapons wherever that would be an option (so 2 heavies per 10 men).

Alpha Legion
All infantry models have Infiltration.
May Reroll Seize the initiative roll.

Word Bearers
When casting Malefic, they peril normally and not on any double result.
Non-vehicles units have Crusader.

Death Guard
Everything able must purchase Mark of Nurgle and cannot take units with any other mark. Every model has FnP 6+ or adds +1 to his FnP save if already has one. Models shooting with bolters and heavy bolters are Relentless.

World Eaters
Everything able must purchase Mark of Khorne and cannot take units with any other mark. All models with a melee weapon replace them with Chainaxes (AP4) for free.
All models gain Hatred and Iron Will.

Thousand Sons
Everything that can have Mark of Tzeentch must have Mark of Tzeentch, and cannot take units with Marks other than Mark of Tzeentch.
Any unit with 10 or models with MoTzeentch grants an extra Warp Charge.
Sorcerors from this Legion have access to Divination.

Emperor's Children
Everything that can have Mark of Slaanesh must have Mark of Slaanesh, and cannot take units with Marks other than Mark of Slaanesh. When running, model from this legion adds + 3" to the result. All models reroll to hit rolls of "1".

Thanks to @MidnightSun for some great ideas. And thank to everyone that is partecipating in this :)
 

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Any reason why the Deathguard, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Thousand Sons (and retroactively Black Legion, with VotLW) cannot just have "All units that can take the Mark of (appropriate god here) gain it for free. In addition Plague Marines/other can be taken as troop choices."

I know by default having an HQ with the respective Mark unlocks them, it's just to prevent any potential issues.

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Also for the Alpha Legion, I would put it that CSMs, Cultists, Chosen, and HQs gain infiltrate.

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The Night Lords "feel" OP with their second rule...also what is the point of having to take a Ld test? Moral can cause a unit to fall back off the table, and pinning causes the unit to be pinned. I just do not get the point of a Ld test there, what am I missing?
 
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