[Giant Fossil Penguin]

Gotcha. Not what you think, certainly not fluff rape, anyway.
With rumours of new GK coming early next year, I was thinking about getting my small army back off the ground. However, another loyalist faction doesn't really grab me atm, so I was going to model them up to be an elite chaos-loyal force. Not fallen or corrupted GK, not GK who have become disliiusioned with the Imperium, rather a straight-out counts-as force. The question is, what they will count-as and how to portray that.
Firstly, I thought of going with making them a Justaerin-alike. Horus' elite Terminators would really fit with the elite style of the GK- the anti-daemon rules could be looked at as the skills these veterans have gained fighting wars in the EoT. The non-chaos vehicles don't really bother me- they can always be rationalised as spoils of war, the Justaerin taking things from battlefields/Munitorum depot-worlds that will help in their fighting.
So, colour-scheme-wise, how would I portay this? Just plain black? That could, if done right, be a powerful statement of their anti-GK-ness. But, is there another way to look at them? An amalgam of other traitor forces? A Dark Mech project? Something from the other, non-aligned Legions to keep their daemon-infested brethren at bay?
The other question would be how to change the livery, bearing in mind I have no real GS skills, nor am I particularly handy with a knife. The Sword over Book motif could be filed to just a sword- maybe alluding to the Speartip of the GC-era? The inset words I still like- this could be choas-inspired anti-daemon wards. But would it look better if I filled them in/filed them out? I would like for them to look like the GK, the difference being more subtle than in-your-face tentacles et al. I think no mutations, but if anyone has a good idea then I'll take it on board.
So, I need ideas for an elite Chaos force that has an ethos/mission that means I can use the GK Codex. I'm undecided on what they will look like. Any ideas?

GFP

 

[Imperious]

The only thing I can think of, and this is stretching it, is that the forces of chaos are trying to herd in one of their own that has gotten to big for it's own sake and is now threatening the other forces of chaos. So they send out a psychic message to the grey knights and the inquisition. Reluctantly they agree that they must put aside their imperial doctrine and join forces with chaos to overcome this massive threat to the entire galaxy, warp, universe, etc.

Personally it doesn't really matter if you're playing with your friends.

 

[Baron Spikey]

The only thing I can think of, and this is stretching it, is that the forces of chaos are trying to herd in one of their own that has gotten to big for it's own sake and is now threatening the other forces of chaos. So they send out a psychic message to the grey knights and the inquisition. Reluctantly they agree that they must put aside their imperial doctrine and join forces with chaos to overcome this massive threat to the entire galaxy, warp, universe, etc.

Personally it doesn't really matter if you're playing with your friends.

Just no, that's as bad fluff-wise as having a force of Grey Knights who have fallen to Chaos.

Maybe they could be an elite band/taskforce of Word Bearers sent to enforce the 'faith' in the Eye of Terror and beyond, their fervent zealotry to the dark gods might account for the similar psychic protection that the Grey Knights themselves have- of all the Legions they have the most contact with Daemons and consider themselves above them in the hierachy of Chaos so they'd certainly have the required anti-daemon knowledge.

I'm just spinning this out moment to moment but that's one of my first thoughts.

 

[Giant Fossil Penguin]

Sorry, Imperius, I mightn't have made this clear. This army will not, in any way at all, be GK or Imperial. I'm just using the rules (and probably the new minis) to make an army, an army that I would like to be Chaos-ified.
Baron, cool idea. I really like the Justaerin idea, but a mix of Legions makes for the possibility of different colour schemes. So, the WB would offer some daemon expertise and probably a mecanism for creating the common ground to pull disparate units together, the BL termies would be hard-ass veterans, and maybe I could go as far as having super-duper-uper-wuper Rubric/Sorcerer TS, so allowing a mechanism for force weapons.
In a way, I almost envisage this army as the troubleshooters of whoever is giving them the best stuff- be it temporal power, artifacts, slaves or whatever. So, Abaddon might lead them but, wanting to give himself a real edge, a WB Dark Apostle offers them blood-drenched glory in the forefront of an attack to desicrate something.
I'm starting to lean towards this being some sort of chaos Legion of heroes type of thing. The greatest followers of the gods, and even those who are just plain bad-ass, join together, get the best weapons, and kick metric fuck-tonnes of buttock.

GFP

 

[Baron Spikey]

It's Chaos Interpol!

 

[Imperious]

Just no, that's as bad fluff-wise as having a force of Grey Knights who have fallen to Chaos.

Maybe they could be an elite band/taskforce of Word Bearers sent to enforce the 'faith' in the Eye of Terror and beyond, their fervent zealotry to the dark gods might account for the similar psychic protection that the Grey Knights themselves have- of all the Legions they have the most contact with Daemons and consider themselves above them in the hierachy of Chaos so they'd certainly have the required anti-daemon knowledge.

I'm just spinning this out moment to moment but that's one of my first thoughts.

Uh just no as well. Everyone's got an opinion and they all ...

Personally I think the idea is crazy. I was merely try to help out an idea with some fluff. Grey knights and chaos are polar opposites. No fluff could do the combination justice.

Regardless if your playing with friends and you obey your point limitations then it doesn't really matter does it? But that's a different story.

 

[increaso]

I'm struggling to think of an angle that would do the concept justice.

I can't think of a good reason for elite chaos space marines that are specifically trained and equipped to fight daemons.

I can come up with good reasons regarding how they get their weapons and training, but not why.


Okay, so here we go (please don't roll your eye too much):

- An elite force aligned to a particular god that are specifically trained to defend against and attack the daemon armies of other gods (nemesis force weapons could be weapons imbued with the power of [insert god's name]).

- Non-aligned CSM that consider themselves above the power of the gods and daemons who consider chaos a tool than master (perhaps like Abaddon's elite as pervioously mentioned). Obviously, they would have a fluctuating relationship with the gods and would get into conflicts with daemons regularly (or at least between black crusades)

 

[space cowboy]

Thousand Sons? Some other Tzeentch worshiping group? Doesn't seem to much of a stretch that the T-Sons or some other Tzeentch associated group would have dudes that specialized in hunting down daemons. Considering Tzeentch is constantly planning for every eventuality, it seems like something he would arrange to have in his arsenal. You could even use storm troopers to represent cultists and inquisitors to represent non-astartes sorcerers or whatever. Seems like the most natural counts-as to me.

If you were willing to use non-GK models and just use the GK codex, you could maybe even use it to represent pre-Heresy Thousand Sons. I don't have my pdf right in front of me, but it seems like you could make a pretty ok correlation.

 

[rodmillard]

You could maybe do it as a khorne cult who are all about martial prowess and honour in battle (rather than Kill! Maim! Froth! Rage!). The anti-psyker abilities fit, as do the superior weapons etc (maybe explain FW attacks as some kind of "killing blow" ability, like the rule from WFB).

 

[Giant Fossil Penguin]

If I were to go as far as properly codifying my own fluff for this army, then the whole daemon-specialists thing could very well be downplayed (it's just something they are really good at as a side-effect of their chaos-ness, not what they're all about), in favour of emphasising their general 1337-ness. I think rather than getting too hung up on the anti-daemon angle, we should concentrate on the fact that they are just ultra-fantastic Marines. @Baron, I just love Chaos Interpol! I wonder who they've got on their most-wanted list?!
I'm quite liking the idea of it being something of a 'crusade'-style force- multiple Legions/warbands getting together and sharing some sort of symbol/colour scheme. So, what could that be? If I went with them wrorking for Abaddon, then I can use the Eye of Horus, no probs. But any other ideas? And how would I go about converting the armour to make it more chaos-y, but without having to go wild with GS?
Thanks for the help so far, Heretics!

GFP

EDIT: I could even work the angle that they are a sort of chaos Deathwatch. Coming from the EoT, it makes some sense that the greatest chaos Marines would be versed infighting daemons.

 

[Baron Spikey]

I know it's virtually a cliche but spikes, horns and tusks would be the most obvious ways to emphasise their chaos-ness, possibly a handful of shoulder/back trophy racks ala Chaos Terminators.

Of course their actual weapons would need to be painted in dark threatening colours as well maybe with some fresh/dried gore on them.

 

[NiceGuyEddy]

You could take two of them, paint them black, tilt the blades of their nemesis weapons forward to look like scythes and call them Deathshroud. All you need then is a model of the grim reaper from bill and ted's bogus journey to be Mortarion. It's how I picture him....

 

[Giant Fossil Penguin]

That could be cool, Mortation's bodyguard! I think that will depend on if there is a good enough SC in the new 'dex.
@Baron: I had thought of mixing the Chaos Termies with the new plastic kits. I've also got some bitz left from the WFB Chaos Knight kit- that might work.
Not that I'm the best at doing them, but I could maybe go with the weapons being 'on fire' inside, trying to get a glowing effect. I imagine that they would be all up with Incinerators!
There might be something cool to do with the mortal followers of chaos, depending on how the Inquisition are in the book. I've always wondered if there would be a chaos Inquis, roaming the chaos-held worlds rooting out God-Emperor worship...
GFP

 

[Daddysen]

In a way, I almost envisage this army as the troubleshooters of whoever is giving them the best stuff- be it temporal power, artifacts, slaves or whatever. So, Abaddon might lead them but, wanting to give himself a real edge, a WB Dark Apostle offers them blood-drenched glory in the forefront of an attack to desicrate something.
I'm starting to lean towards this being some sort of chaos Legion of heroes type of thing. The greatest followers of the gods, and even those who are just plain bad-ass, join together, get the best weapons, and kick metric fuck-tonnes of buttock.

GFP

What ever you do dont cross codexes like take Abaddon to lead your "chaos grey knights" thats pushing it a bit far. taking the grey knights codex and using their rules to make a fallen legion is totally acceptible and even encouraged by games workshop. but if you start picking and choosing from several codecies( for example grey knights are awesome so i want them , and oooh i like the fast tanks that blood angels have so ill grab those oh yeah and i like to split fire with my dev squads so ill borrow those from the space wolves. see where i am going with this.) i think thats too much.

as for Fluff to say that Grey Knights are immune to Chaos is initself a viable doorway to chaos " Pride goeth before a fall and a Haughty spirit before destruction."

Personally I think you are on to something awesome stick with it. as for modeling I think an awesome Dark paint scheme is black and crimson gore with brown ink on the crimson gore it comes out so nice you should test it out on something see if you like it.

 

[Giant Fossil Penguin]

I'm not out to cross codexes. What I mean by this group of traitor Astartes working for Abaddon, is that, from a modelling perspective, I'll put an Eye of Horus on all of them, rather than the Sword & Book of the GK. Black as the main colour does seem to be quite fitting, and blood of some sort seems obligatory!
I'd love to have some ideas on colour-schemes and iconography etc. If I file away the Sword & Book, I could replace it with a spearhead (I'd probably make a mould of a WFB spear, so I can churn them out), representing the perpetuation of the elite-of-the-elite forming the spearhead that first-strikes the enemy into ashes. After that, what colours should I go- do folks reckon the multi-Legion makeup is the way to go, or do I have a single black-based scheme for all of them, maybe having them as a Chaos Deathwatch, with each member showing something of their Legion of origin? Or, should I make them a warband, just one that is incredibly effective and has the use of the best equipment? Questions, questions; help!!

GFP

Oh, but thanks to everyone who has helped so far! It really helps to get some feedback from different points of view!

 

[normtheunsavoury]

For a colour scheme I would be tempted to break the mould a little.
Instead of the normal grubby Chaos look go with nice shiny black armour with a stark contrast of gold or silver edges.
Make them look elite and stand out from the rank and file.

 

[Giant Fossil Penguin]

Yeah, that sounds like what I'm after. I've really got stuck on this Justaerin idea, however, I'm thinking of taking it a different way. What would you guys think of this:

After the long years of the Scouring had left the battered forces of Chaos in the Eye Of Terror, each Legion underwent a painful period of internal strife as the recriminations tore through them. The death of Horus had sundered all cohesion from the once triumphant Crusade of the gods, but now even the Legions themselves threatened to tear apart as nascent warlords flexed their newfound power, won in the heat of battle.
The Sons of Horus, now the Black Legion, were worst affected in the days before the dissolution of the World Eaters at the hands of Kharn. Abaddon's disdain for his fallen lord met resistance from those who saw that the failure wasn't Horus', but rather his trusted Lieutenant's who hadn't rallied the shocked traitors and pressed the advantage won by Horus' scarifice.
The Mournival had long since dissolved, Abaddon not wanting, nor needing, the mewling of fools to distract him from his destiny. But, in a moment shocking betrayl, the elite Justaerin, the Terminator-armoured elite of the Sons of Horus once commanded by the new Warmaster as the Speartip of the whole Great Crusade, turned its back on Abaddon, seeing in him everything that was worst in the power-grubbing and back-stabbing that had overtaken the Legions. They had followed Horus not from blind loyalty but from a total conviction that the Emperor had fallen from the true path, giving what had been won with so much blood and suffering into the hands of petty Tithers and officials who saw only the numbers and not the blood they represented, and that Horus the favoured would set him right. Now, they felt that the dream of a just and true galaxy had been lost and the Justaerin now wanted no part in whatever Abaddon had planned.
Over time the realty of the situation became manifiest to the now-independent veterans. Knowing only war, they threw themselves into the in-fighting between the Legions and the denizens of the Eye of Terror. With pacts formed with the Dark Mechanicus, this new force took only the best materiel for itself. And following this, when losses needed to be replaced, they took only the best, taking for themselves the greatest veterans and leaders from those Legions and warbands they fought with.
Now, in M41, they have become one of the power-players in the Eye, available for hire by any who can meet their massive, but justified, price. Wars are fought on their say-so and the mere threat of their involvement is enough to subdue mutinous forces and even entire planets. With members from all of the Legions and major warbands the Justaerin are possessed of not only physical might, but also psychic might and terrible knowledge of the warp. The Eye trembles at the passing of the warriors of the spear; so will the Imperium...

GFP

 

[Serpion5]

Epic, just epic. :victory:

So, GK termis are the Justaerin, power armoured GK are their aspiring recruits, and perhaps the other elements (inquisitors stormtroopers and such) could be mortal followers or slaves? Traitor guard or representatives of the dark mech (counts as skitarii)?

If daemonhosts remain in the book, an enslaved daemon or captured psyker?

Assassins could be... well, assassins of a more sinister nature (eversor = Khornate uberpsycho) ?

After all, this gives you more options in your list, in keeping with the fact that such legendary warriors would be extremely resourceful and influential. :good:

 

[normtheunsavoury]

Great original thinking as always, I'm liking this a lot!
So much better than "They were Grey Knights that got stuck in the warp and turned to Chaos because an inquisitor told them it would be a fun game".

 

[Giant Fossil Penguin]

I hadn't actually thought of breaking it down like that, Serpion- cheers for that, it gives it a bit more structure.
At the risk of blowing my own horn, I enjoy coming up with alternate uses for Codecies. Nothing too radical, but a Codex for a PA force should be usable by just about any other PA force if you just think hard enough. Whilst no-one *has* to come up with fluff to do what they want, I like trying to find logically consistent ways to make these crossovers work. I believe, with a bit of thought (and I find this to be really quite fun) any Codex can be made to fit just about any other army. 'Nids as AdMech, anyone?
I like the thought of Chaos Inquis. I've got some models painted as straight-up Imperial Inquisitors- if there are new models for these bad-boys/girls, then it will be really fun to spike them up a bit!
So, back to how they will look. As I'm going to use models from many Legions/warbands, how will I depict this? Would I go the Deathwatch route and have them use their original colours, just repainting one piece of armour so they have it in common? Or would I have them repaint all of their armour and leave one piece unchanged, to represent the Legion/warband they have come from?

GFP