[jaws900]

I have been playing my new chaos army with a few proxy modals here and there and so far it's been going great. I have won 2 out of 3 games, losing the last to another Chaos army while winning agianst Dark Angels and Ultramarines(and turing Calgar into a Spawn!!!:thank_you
Anyway. I wanted to be able to work up to 1500pts. this one will take longer as i wont be proxying the newer modals and since all i have proxy so far is 2 Rhinos and 20 Chaos marines as there Sane counterparts i don't think to many people will mind if i hold of pay for and painting that many. Anway i knew i wanted daemons in my expanding army and also wanted to keep the theme of "Hidden Icons" which is just my fansy word for; "Drive around in rhinos waiting for deepstikeing stuff".Anyway the list.

:hq:
Chaos Sorcerer w/ T-armour, Gift, MOT - 175pts
Removed Doombolt gogin up to 1500pts to save points but that about all
Greater Daemon - 100pts
New to the list as i wanted so fire magnets and so muscel and also taking on the advice of a top 5 Chaos units tactica
:elites:
Chaos Termintors w/ x2 Powerfists, x1 Chainfist, x2 Power swords, Heavy flamer, x2 Combi-melta, x2 Twin bolter - 210pts
Unchanged from last lsit. i wanted everyone to have diffrent weapons for allocations(which has saved me once before)
:troops:
10 Chaos Marines w/ x2 Meltaguns, Melta bomb, IOG - 200pts
10 Chaos Marines w/ x2 Flamers, Melta bomb, IOG - 185pts
Unchan ged from last list and the core of the army. There for fire support and for teleporting locations for deep strikes
9 Thousand Sons w/ Bolt of Change, Personl Icon - 237pts
2nd addition. There for more fire power and diversity. Will stay in a Rhino as long as possible and use Icon to teleport daemons etc. Also Bolt of Change for Tank Hunting if needed
10 Lesser Daemons - 130pts
These guys are also added and i hope to use them as my main combat troops as only my Termintors are effective otherwise. I hope to teleport them down, assault and then there job is mor eor less done as they can absorb bullets for the rest of my army or make more mayhem.
:hs:
2 Obliterators - 150pts
Unchanged from last list. Just made of awsume
3 Rhinos w/ Extra Bolte ron 1(Thousand Sons) - 110pts
To give my Troops more chance to survive the first turn esspesially. The extra bolter was jsut left over points and i don't really want it but couldn't think of anything els ei could do with 5pts.

Well that my list and please be brutal(within reason). Also i noticed after i made the list that i'm starting to favor Tzeentch so i have to wonder if i should have the new pink horrors even tho i hate the modals. Opions?

 

[ROT]

Your proberbly going to need more anti-tank, Don't really know what to suggest dropping, besides your lesser daemons, for some melta-chosen.

Your underestimating what your CSM can do, theyre not just for Deep-striking guidance!! And then Over-estimating your deepstriking stuff. Your GD will be a brilliant magnet, but you should also try and get some tougher things held up in combat with it before he dies

list should work tho, just worried about your minimal-anti-mech in such a mech-heavy world today.

 

[Flame80010]

Your proberbly going to need more anti-tank, Don't really know what to suggest dropping, besides your lesser daemons, for some melta-chosen.

Your underestimating what your CSM can do, theyre not just for Deep-striking guidance!! And then Over-estimating your deepstriking stuff. Your GD will be a brilliant magnet, but you should also try and get some tougher things held up in combat with it before he dies

list should work tho, just worried about your minimal-anti-mech in such a mech-heavy world today.

And the Greater Deamon... sure he attracts fire and is pretty tanky, but for a bit more points you can just get a Deamon prince who is a FAR bigger threat (plus you dont have to Nom one of your own champs)

i always feel non-cult CSM's are underrated... i even under rate them myself... MOAR CULT TROOPS! cult troops are better for a reason :3

Anti tank i can also see a problem with... i really think your wasting points in your Termis though they just arnt as good as the loyalists and TBH i think you could invest points in better places -COUGH- KHORNE BERSERKERS -COUGH-

Long range will be an issue for you, since your basicly gaurenteed to get things like LR's Liths and etc

 

[Hungry Donner]

Uh oh. Some problems.

Your Thousand Son squad doesn't have an aspiring Sorcerer. It must take one.

Your Greater Daemon only has the Chaos Sorcerer to sacrifice to enter play. That's costing you a lot of points.

 

[Deathscythe4722]

1: Give your Rhinos Extra Armour. Crew Stunned results can really ruin your day.

2: You need Champs on your squads so the Greater Daemon has someplace to spawn other than your Sorceror.

3: Melta Bombs on the CSM squads seem a bit redundant, especially on the Melta squad.

4: The Sorceror. Gift isn't that great. it fails more often than it works, especially on big things. At 30 pts its really not worth it. If he has MoT, switch it for Bolt of Change. A Str 8 AP 1 shot is a much better bet, as it can pop vehicles and kill more reliably.

 

[jaws900]

I should not that EVERY unit has a Champion unless otherwise stated and in my 1000pts force they are the ones carrying the Icons.
I have only jsut noticed that an Aspiring sorcer costs 60pts!!!! I thoguht you could only take upto 1 but balances out as you have to take a power. Right time to adjust the list then.

:hq:
Chaos Sorcerer w/ T-armour, Gift, MOT - 175pts
Daemon Prince w/ Wings, MOT, Warptime - 175pts
Took him instead of any daemons. Will genraly be my everyman unit and a little bit more anti-tank
:elites:
Chaos Termintors w/ x2 Powerfists, x1 Chainfist, x2 Power swords, Heavy flamer, x2 Combi-melta, x2 Twin bolter - 210pts
:troops:
10 Chaos Marines w/ x2 Meltaguns, Melta bomb, IOG - 200pts
10 Chaos Marines w/ x2 Flamers, Melta bomb, IOG - 185pts
9 Thousand Sons w/ Doombolt, Personl Icon - 259pts
I wanted to keep them as i think i have a thing for Tzeentch so after actually taking the A-Sorcerer now(stupid eyes not seeing his cost) and taking the cheapest power as i have to take a power they should be fine now. They should be my ranged attackers and anti-MEQ unit
:hs:
2 Obliterators - 150pts
3 Rhinos w/ Extra Armour on all - 150pts
Removed the extra bolter and got armour for all of them as movement is key for this army as i need to get close to use the msot of my termintors and obliterators

Well thats the revised list. I will keep Gift of Chaos as i jsut love it and possibly the m ain reason i started Chaos

 

[jaws900]

Any help with this newer list? I have promiced a friend of mine a rematch and he wants to up the points to 1500 so i need to get this list right far sooner than thought.

 

[Primarch Lorgar]

well now you don't have daemons, no need for personalicons, other than that, fine. you don'y really need allthe melta bombs, but in a pinch they can be good anti tank. if you want the icon to deepstrike the termies, it'd up to you.k:

 

[jaws900]

The P-Icon ins just there for options on where my guys DS in.

 

[Primarch Lorgar]

OK, I like deep striking termies a lot!k:

 

[jaws900]

as do I. Choas Termintors arn't crap like Marine ones :biggrin:

 

[Primarch Lorgar]

agreed, I don't know why everyone says the loyalist ones are better! I once had a squad with the same stuff alll with PFs and Twin linked bolters and I won!:so_happy:

 

[KingOfCheese]

agreed, I don't know why everyone says the loyalist ones are better! I once had a squad with the same stuff alll with PFs and Twin linked bolters and I won!:so_happy:

As far as Termies go in a straight comparison, TH/SS Termies win hands down.

The only advantage CSM Termies have is that they can be adapted to fill a number of different roles depending on what wargear you give them.
The first thing that comes to mind is the Termicide unit (3 Termies with combi-melta/plasma).
Wargear, Icons, and Champ upgrades can make the unit a lot more killy than loyalist Termies, however their cost far outweighs their benefits.

If you are using Termies purely as an assault unit delivered in a Land Raider, loyalist TH/SS Termies will always be better than CSM Termies for their points. Always!

 

[Primarch Lorgar]

Termies will always be better than CSM Termies for their points. Always!

typically, yes, always, no!:nono:

 

[KingOfCheese]

typically, yes, always, no!:nono:

Purely as an assaulting unit, CSM cant match TH/SS Termies for their points. Ever.
Feel free to prove me wrong.:smoke:

 

[jaws900]

in a game yesterday my unit of 5 Chaos Termintors(as in the lists) and my Sorcerer when up agianst a unit of 10 normal Terminotrs with 3 Chainfists, Assault cannon and a Termie Chplin in combat. Not only did the Chaplin turn into a spawn and only 1 Termy fell to the 10+ shots form them but i killed ALL of them and left the combat with 2 normal Termies and my Sorcerer uncaved.

Also i would like to prove you wrong Cheese. i charge my unit(as above) into Calgar and 5 TH/SS termies. They all died becuase half my guys attacked first. Only Calgar survived and he lost 2 wounds. I lost only 3 in return. The next combat i lost the other 2 to calgar and took antoher wound on him. my next turn he turn into a spawn. I took out a unit of 5 200pts modals in 1 turn with about 130pts worth.

 

[ROT]

Mmm. DS'ing Termies is a great idea, i love it aswell, but tbh, it never works out for me!!

They never come down till turn 5, inwhich they wont have time to actually help. :|

I have bad DSing luck. :| But on paper it works fine.

And i'm with cheese: Disgusting Loyalist termies do own ours.

Fucking Thunder Hammers...

 

[hippogryph]

Sigh, for their points TH&SH Termies are better than chaos termies for points efficiency and survivability. Plus they have null zone to swing combats in their favor.

@Jaws900-Concerning your first example, it holds little weight since you're going against shooty terminators which with a 5+ have the same survivability as you and the discussion so far has been on TH&SH terminators being better. Plus if you're opponent was running a chaplain with walking terminators of the shooty variant then he was off his rocker.

As for the second example, it just sounds like bad rolls to me. And your opponent was running that point sink Calgar, who for some reason didn't just allocate two PF attacks to the sorcerer and and the rest on the termies. Or he could have just used Calgar's power sword and struck before your termies and likely cut three of them down, reducing the damage output of your higher initiative.

And now that I'm looking over your list I must as how the heck did you manage to get the charge off with your 210 pt unit! There is no way your opponent should allow this to happen it's just way too easy to prevent.

As for the list itself I think you should add more on the field threats. If your opponent cannot stop three rhinos with only two oblits acting as a fire support unit then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[ROT]

Lol at you saying sigh.

This conversation comes up way to much, with the same conclusion! People should have memorised it by now.

 

[jaws900]

As for the second example, it just sounds like bad rolls to me. And your opponent was running that point sink Calgar, who for some reason didn't just allocate two PF attacks to the sorcerer and and the rest on the termies. Or he could have just used Calgar's power sword and struck before your termies and likely cut three of them down, reducing the damage output of your higher initiative.

And now that I'm looking over your list I must as how the heck did you manage to get the charge off with your 210 pt unit! There is no way your opponent should allow this to happen it's just way too easy to prevent.

Well i made sure than he couldn't target my sorcerer in cambat by not putting in the frount and actually in the middle so Calgar couldn't be in bace contact with him.
The other one was becuase of a Chaos Spawn in the way which i couldn't kill so he cahrged it instead