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The Masque

RAW The Masque is not IC so cannot join a squad, so unless you play a houserule or there is FAQ/Errata printed I am starting to think she is kinda vulnerable even with the nice save due to being out and low W count...I want to love her, just kinda find it hard to do so lately.

Strategic use of Pavane and an assault can completely pull a unit off an objective or out of LoS to give reprieve from shooting to your units.

I might bring her in early to keep my assault safe from fire via LoS if I could or I might bring her in late to hopefully not bring much attention to her and then take or at least deny my opponent objectives with her.
 

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is a mix of the gods units better than a single god army
 

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I believe this is more a place for us to compile our tactics when using daemons than to ask questions.

In answer most often mixing gods will produce a better list. Nurgle/Epidemius list is a solid exception.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Princes as a viable 'Heavy' option

I've personally heard and read a lot of flak toward the Daemon Princes. Since the Daemon army only has 2 Heavy Support options, why would anyone pick anything other than the soul grinder for their selection given the point costs disparity?

The problem I've found is that few people have ever actually put the Daemon Princes into any practical game experience and thus are only basing their opinions off of either math based assumptions or the hearsay of another player. Tonight I decided to put them to the test.

They did not dissapoint.

I built a specific army in mind for the Princes and decided to test their capabilities as a mobile fire base. Using Fateweaver as a tether, their synergy surpassed my expectations. Here are the major differences one needs to consider in order to properly understand how the Prince works over the Grinder.

1. The Prince has an Inv save. While it's true it is more susceptable to small arms fire, it can purchase an additional armor save. The Soul Grinder is a larger vehicle and has a very hard time gaining a save of any kind against shooting attacks. While the Grinder relies on it's armor and possession, the Prince may completely ignore attacks against it.

2. The Prince has different shooting abilities. With a Tzeentch load out, the Prince can fire a whooping 3 weapons, where the Grinder is always limited to a maximum of two. They both must target the same unit, but the Prince has a great variety of weapons at it's disposal, while even through upgrades, the Grinder is still limited in it's choices.

3. The Prince is more dangerous in H2H. The main point is that it can get greater Melee options, it's still a monsterous creature and much faster than a Grinder. One on one, a Prince would statistically speaking defeat a Grinder in Combat. Not by much, but the point remains.

4. Synergy in consideration, the Prince gains more. Speaking from the Fateweaver experience, my Prince didn't suffer a single wound due to rerolls. The Grinder gains no benefit from Fateweaver.
4A. The Prince can also be much faster than a Soul Grinder when equipped with Wings. It has the ability to support other units with greater ease where the Grinder is slower and more cumbersome.

5. The Prince will ALWAYS require several wounds to kill. The Grinder at minimum only requires a single shot to completely destroy.

6. More people are concerned with Soul Grinders over Princes, so currently don't expect them to be a real threat. Until this changes, consider that your opponent may not do much of anything against them, underestimating their potential damage output can improve a fatal error.

One way to think about them is a rather expensive and more customizable Hive Tyrant. They are fragile when left by themselves, can put out a suprising amount of hurt on the enemy and work well when used for a specific purpose.

The main point to consider is that Princes are so rarely used by anyone and to often overlooked for their potential abilities. I played a 1v2 match, and all 3 of us were very suprised by what the Princes were able to accomplish.
 

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nice tactica, there should be more people using DPs, im sure lots of people will be sceptical or astonished by this ^^
 

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i prefer large units of daemons. why?

1. as 40k is now troops only for capping objectives, it is far harder to kill a large unit completely than 2 small ones. by this i mean if there are 4 objectives, chances are that you may send 4 small squads out to get each one for the win, rather than going for only two.

2. CC as most daemons are CC, it means that a unit of 10 can get more attacks in. 2 units of 5 will have alot of trouble getting all the attacks in as they charge in to base contact where possible. there may not be any space for the second unit of 5 to get into combat.

3. a large unit of plague bearers can give more cover saves to the softer units behind them. they screen the bloodletters and pass off the 4+ cover save.
 

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I definitely 2nd the DPs being awesome especially when combined with FW, though at our store there are 3 regular daemon players and all use DPs. I am the only one who even has SGs which I break out sometimes.

With DPs, it's easy to dump too many points into them. I in general keep them to 3 or less gifts including marks.

If SGs had a better WS, they would be much nicer with hitting on 3s, though they still hit on 4s and wound on 2s so things die, plus they can insta kill most anything. They also have 2x shooting base for a reasonable price. To get a DP there you spend more points.

They are both nice and have their applications. DPs can survive longer and be kitted more vastly. SGs with high armor can get you a battle cannon and are great at tying up units unless there is a power fist or equiv weapon in the squad. They are the only really long range weapon as well.

Large units makes for awesomeness. I have been running with 18 strong units for fun lately and have been winning because I always have a few guys to hold/contest no matter how much shooting/cc is tossed at me. Plus it makes for less KPs.
 

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When it comes to Daemon Princes, there are only a few configurations that are truly worth it in my experience.

Without any upgrades, a Daemon Prince is just a waste of points. He has low Strength and Toughness values (for a Monstrous Creature, that is), a poor save and isn't especially quick. It's the unfortunate truth that without spending some points to make him more survivable you're probably better off buying a pair of Bloodcrushers, who have the same Strength, Toughness, Wounds (if you add the total Wounds of two 'Crushers together, that is) as well as having more Attacks (again between the two of them). It also helps that Bloodcrushers come standard with the Iron Hide Daemonic Gift making them a far better choice than a naked Daemon Prince.

If you're willing to spend some points though, you can get a model that can do almost as much damage as a Greater Daemon of whichever God it may be dedicated to but for far less points. It's also nice that Daemon Princes can be made more survivable than some of their Greater Daemon counterparts (in the case of Slaaneshi Princes, at least).

Here are some optimal configurations for Daemon Princes.

Daemon Prince of Khorne
- Unholy Might
- Iron Hide
- Mark of Khorne
- Blessing of the Blood God
Pts: 155

If you just want a (relatively) cheap combat monster who can tear most units to pieces in close combat than this beast is for you. He has a high Strength, lots of Attacks, a good armor save and is almost completely immune to psychic powers (so you won't need to worry about that annoying Lash of Submission or Doom.

Daemon Prince of Nurgle
- Mark of Nurgle
- Iron Hide
- Noxious Touch
- Cloud of Flies
- Breath of Chaos
Pts: 185

This Daemon Prince is meant mostly to survive a lot of shots and attacks from your enemy. Like all Daemons he's immune to Instant Death, but he also has a scary Toughness value that renders the small arms of most infantry almost totally worthless against him with an excellent armor save to back it up. Noxious Touch helps him wound even the toughest of enemies with ease (just don't try this against a Gargantuan Creature since Poisoned Attacks don't work against them!), while Cloud of Flies is a cheap way of ensuring that hiding behind some barrels won't be enough to stay this guy's wrath. This is also why he has the Breath of Chaos Daemonic Gift. Use this Prince to attract a lot of attention and dig even the most stubborn unit out of cover.

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
- Mark of Slaanesh
- Aura of Acquiscence
- Soporific Musk
- Pavane of Slaanesh
- Iron Hide
Pts: 175

This Daemon Prince works well when tag-teaming with a Keeper of Secrets and/or unit of Fiends of Slaanesh. He's fast in combat with a high Initiative but is very vulnerable to ranged attacks even with Iron Hide. This guy's job is to enter close combat with units that are really looking to avoid it or to jump into an assault, deal damage and then quickly flee with Hit and Run. The Pavane also helps ensure that the slower units in your army can catch something that may be fleeing them.

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Iron Hide
- Unholy Might
- Bolt of Tzeentch
Pts: 190

The most expensive Daemon Prince, this guy's also probably the most powerful. He's resilient because of his Iron Hide and good Invulnerable save (due to the Mark of Tzeentch), still hits hard in combat and also has an incredibly powerful ranged attack. This guy is probably your best bet for quickly taking out tanks or other large, powerful models. Carnifex or Leman Russ giving you trouble? Land this guy nearby and let that big guy have it with a Bolt into the side armor and charge it in your turn.

Katie D
 

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My greatest success with Daemons comes from feilding a Lord of change with two winged/breathed DP's. 3 MC's is enough hate to bring the attention away from smaller daemons (daemonettes and horrors, in particular. The Pavane works extremely well when matched near flamers of tzeentch.
 

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Daemon Prince of Khorne
- Unholy Might
- Iron Hide
- Mark of Khorne
- Blessing of the Blood God
Pts: 155

If you just want a (relatively) cheap combat monster who can tear most units to pieces in close combat than this beast is for you. He has a high Strength, lots of Attacks, a good armor save and is almost completely immune to psychic powers (so you won't need to worry about that annoying Lash of Submission or Doom.

Katie D
do's blessing of the gods save aganst all psychic powers or is it only from wounds from a psychic power
i hope it saves from all psychic powers but it soulds to good to be true
but i think i will try 2 of the khorne dp's
 

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I'm currently running a winged DP with my Slaaneshi Daemons. I've found the combination of Pavane and Breath to be quite efficient, especially seeing that you can assault any survivors. Also works in a support role as it effectively gives a 2d6 fleet move towards the enemy therefore, almost guaranteeing that the Seekers/Fiends/Daemonettes/Keeper that want to hit said unit will get there.
 

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Threadomancy! Slay the heretic! :grin:

Welcome to the forum, but please read the forum rules and let a dead thread lie.

If you have something to say about Daemon tactics then it is far better to start a new thread rather than adding to an existing thread that has been dead for more than half a year.
 

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hey i know this isn't the place for questions, but im reading this and revelations said that FW works great with a DP, but i cant get my hands on a FW model, is there anything i could use to substitute him for?
 

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Threadomancy! Slay the heretic! :grin:

Welcome to the forum, but please read the forum rules and let a dead thread lie.

If you have something to say about Daemon tactics then it is far better to start a new thread rather than adding to an existing thread that has been dead for more than half a year.
Midnight
 
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