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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, new to the game, or well old-new, had some years break, and now back to it..

This little army list is my first outcast, I am pretty sure this is what I want, I am not sure however about the instruments for the BL's.

I might get a greater daemon of Tzeentch in stead, not quite sure whats best or most optimal.

190 - Great Unclean One (Breath)
130 - Herald of Khorne (Juggernaut, Unholy Might, Fury of Khorne)

240 - 5x Bloodcrushers (Fury of Khorne, Instrument, Icon)
168 - 8x Bloodletters (Fury of Khorne, Instrument, Icon)
163 - 8x Bloodletters (Fury of Khorne, Instrument)
145 - 9x Plaguebearers (Noxious Touch)

135 - 6x Fleshhounds (Fury of Khorne, Karanak)

320 - 2x Soulgrinders (Phlegm)
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1491 points in total

What are your thoughts?
 

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If I remember bloodletters are better in groups of over 10, so I would raise their squad size. I think that's due to their lack of BS and 5+ save, so you will probably lose some before you get in CC distance.

I'm too tired to offer any more input at moment, so sorry about that.
 

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Hello, new to the game, or well old-new, had some years break, and now back to it..

This little army list is my first outcast, I am pretty sure this is what I want, I am not sure however about the instruments for the BL's.

I might get a greater daemon of Tzeentch in stead, not quite sure whats best or most optimal.

190 - Great Unclean One (Breath)
LOve the GUOs, but I never understand giving them breath. You dont want to DS close enough to use it (far too risky for a GUO- thats what flamers are for) and if you do get close enough to fire it off then you should be close enough to get into combat (where you want to be)... meanwhile if you do use the breath most players will tkae those models closest to you so they you stay outside of combat. I would save the points and grab cloud of flies instead. Its cheap as anything and is fantastic- no charge bonuses for the enemy and you will always be at I2, so you hit before powerfists, rather then being I1 on charge (powerfists are the main problem for GUOs so this is pretty important).

130 - Herald of Khorne (Juggernaut, Unholy Might, Fury of Khorne)
fine, but I wouldnt take fury. It only helps against vehicles and then anything other then a walker or a land raider would have been penetrated by the roll of a 6 anyway

240 - 5x Bloodcrushers (Fury of Khorne, Instrument, Icon)
good unit. Most people stick at 4 so they are all different but it's still nasty.
168 - 8x Bloodletters (Fury of Khorne, Instrument, Icon)
drop the icon, they arent hardy enough to make it worthwhile (it'll just get them shot) and if you can increase the unit size- people hate bloodletters because they are so nasty... means they get a lot of firepower directed at them when they enter play (and since you need to DS into rapid fire range to be effective this tends to hurt. Units of 12-16 are probably about right
163 - 8x Bloodletters (Fury of Khorne, Instrument)
145 - 9x Plaguebearers (Noxious Touch)
way too many plaguebearers... pretty much for the exact opposite reasons to the bloodletters- very hard to kill so most people dont try. A unit of 5-6 survives huge amounts of firepower and can just sit around on an objective almost indefinately. Most people play 6-7 but since 7 is the number of nurgle I tend to stick to that (if I can). These guys are perfect for an icon- they live a long time and are hard for the enemy to shift. I never bother with noxious touch as I think it's a little useless for its points, but whatever you like.

135 - 6x Fleshhounds (Fury of Khorne, Karanak)
I know the models are expensive but you may want a few more of these guys. 12-14 is probably the standard size Ive seen used (never wanted to use them myself, but if I did I think I would just use chaos warhounds instead for the models... although I do have a nicely painted karanak hidden away somewhere).

320 - 2x Soulgrinders (Phlegm)
always good
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1491 points in total

What are your thoughts?
Well its a nice army, but a few small tweeks of numbers here and there and location of the icon and I think it'll be really quite nice. I used to play against a nurgle/khorne army quite a lot but it didnt look anything like this one (probably for the best- the one I played never came close to beating me) so its a little hard to judge, especially since Im more based around tzeentch and slaanesh (although I normally run mono-god lists).
 

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what everyone has been saying exactly on the GUO. I love that build. With those big nasties( for me anyways ) it's always get close and kill stuff or they are stuck trying to play catch up for mechs.
the bloodletters need more numbers. drop upgrades for them to free up some points to make them bigger.
 

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Tim/Steve has it right on. Not really a whole lot more to add than that.

Only thing I would change from his suggestion is the Herald of Khorne. For his points, he's not very impressive (NOT worth 3 bloodcrushers), and if I take a herald I much prefer the Tzeentch Herald on a Chariot. You are going to want a fast unit that can get behind those tanks and open them up with some shooting, and he's the one to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
For a herald of Tzeentch, what would you suggest?

Herald of Tzeentch
-Chariot
-Master of Sorcery
- Bolt of Tzeentch
- We are Legion

Anything missing or maybe too much, also saves me 20 point from the Khorne herald.

And how about changing the fleshhounds with fiends of Slaneesh?

Tim/Steve, how does your lists usually look?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
okay I whipped something else together:

165 - 1 GuO (Cloud of flies)
100 - Tzeentch Herald (Chariot, master of Sorc, Bolt)

175 - 4x Bloodcrushers (Fury, instrument)
150 - 5x Fiends of Slaneesh
150 - 5x Fiends of Slaneesh

255 - 15x Bloodletters (Fury, instrument)
130 - 7x Plaguebearers (icon)

320 - 2x Soulgrinders (Phlegm)

1445 in total, leaves 55 to spend on something, and suggestions?

Waves should be
1: Herald, PB, BL, 1st pack of fiends
2: GuO, BC, Soulgrinders, 2nd pack of fiends

Or did I miss something about the waves?
 

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Very close to what I would do, but would probably forgo the instrument on the bloodletters (if they get into close combat, the odds of them tying are practically nil). The bloodcrushers would get an Icon for wound allocation.

Waves for Daemons are tricky, and would probably require testing. You have enough high threat units that it would depend on what type of opponent you are facing. Remember, you don't have to choose your wave until you begin your first turn.
 

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Last few points could get you an extra fiend with unholy might, always nice boonus to have, and they are harsh in units of 6.

I cant really say how my army looks because I dont really run 'an army'... I run 4-5. I have mono-god for tzeentch (LoC, chariots, flamers, screamers and horrors), nurgle (tally with Ku'gath, DPs, nurglings and plaguebearers) and slaanesh (converted-KoS to be bloodthirster SC- mono god in lokk and feel, but not strict- lots of fiends and daemonettes and some seekers)... then there are the odd mixed armies Ive made, but I dont really use khorne much (only have a few units).

About the nastiest list I've made (possibly with the exception of my mono-slaanesh) I was going to take down to carnage.. but I couldnt make it. Was going to be:

2*GUO- cloud of flies
3*6 fiends- unholy might
2*7 plaguebearers
6 plaguebearers
2*3 screamers
3* soul grinders- phlegm
=1746

Its an evil list that makes no attempt to stay chaarcterful or fluffy... but then I built it for a tourny and I think I only played it once- but then I have no problems winning with my daemons so I dont tend to use my nastiest lists much, if at all.
 

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Yeah, there is a big psychological boost when you see 3 soul grinders show up (and no-one is happy when facing them), plus 3 is the best number to use as hopefully no-one will have the anti-tank to deal with all of them.
 

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How about Skullcrusher on a juggernaut attached to 4 Bloodcrushers with a Herald on a juggernaut massive impact unit.
I play that build in my army list and indeed when they do hit, they hit very hard.

The problem is getting there, are they are very slow and a very easy target because of their size.
 

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Yeah, most people will just dodge and ignore. Everything can basically move away from you at least as quick as you can chase...
You've hit the problem of being 'too good' really. If you are a strong unit then people might have a chance so are willing to stand against you, if its just obvious suicide you'll get very few people willing to fight you. I do this when my WE play against WoC: people play me with huge blocks of ulitmate death and then wonder why I didnt charge my delicate little 'scalpel' combat units into it... "WTF, Imk not charging that monster in an obviously suicidal move"

If I had those same units I would split them to be curushers, herald with bloodletters and skulltaker with bloodletters... now you have 3 units which will kill their way through almost anything.
 

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Yeah, most people will just dodge and ignore. Everything can basically move away from you at least as quick as you can chase...
You've hit the problem of being 'too good' really. If you are a strong unit then people might have a chance so are willing to stand against you, if its just obvious suicide you'll get very few people willing to fight you. I do this when my WE play against WoC: people play me with huge blocks of ulitmate death and then wonder why I didnt charge my delicate little 'scalpel' combat units into it... "WTF, Imk not charging that monster in an obviously suicidal move"

If I had those same units I would split them to be curushers, herald with bloodletters and skulltaker with bloodletters... now you have 3 units which will kill their way through almost anything.

I have to agree with this, when people saw me deepstricking those 6 guys two things would happen, either they got shot to bits barely suriving or they would just run from them.

What I am going to try now is to play with two Bloodthirsters, that way the threat is balanced out between them 2 and my 3 soulgrinders, Bloodthirsters are very fast HQ's with more than enough power to take the sturdiest of vehicles down.

Lets see how they play out.
 
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